Bonus Rewind: Navigating Your Adult Child's Dating Journey with Rachel Greenwald

Transcript

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Hey everyone.

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It's Denise.

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This is one of our last rewinds.

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I think there's just one more after this, but how could we go on and not play this one again?

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This is from Season 3, should Parents Medal in their Adult Child's Dating Life?

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We talked to Rachel Greenwald, a renowned matchmaker, and she shares if, when and how to navigate this tricky issue.

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She shares if, when and how to navigate this tricky issue.

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At first I thought who would ever meddle in their children's dating life?

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But take a listen and see what you think.

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So let's get started.

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As young adults, I think we have to know that we can't tell them who to love.

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As much as we wish we could choose their partner, you have to understand that there's probably a window of time when you can indicate some kind of concern about your child's choice in a boyfriend or girlfriend, and that window of time is early on in their relationship.

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If you bite your tongue for a year or two while they're dating somebody and then it gets serious and suddenly you express your disapproval after they've fallen in love or they're about to get engaged, you're risking a lifetime of alienation from your child.

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Frankly, at that point their allegiance is going to be to their partner and they're going to tell their partner everything you said about them.

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And that partner will never forget it.

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Before we start, I just want to say, Kirsten, I'm so glad you're with me.

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I think we're moving along and we're finally clicking a few episodes in.

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Thanks so much for joining me.

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Thank you so much, denise.

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This has really been a fun experience and I'm excited to be a part of this very important conversation.

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And with that, it's almost Valentine's day.

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Hard to believe, hard to believe, all right.

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So we thought we would talk about dating and love lives, specifically our adult children's love lives.

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Should parents be talking about this?

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Very weird, very weird, I know.

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And so, because we're not so sure, we thought that we would welcome celebrity matchmaker and dating coach Rachel Greenwald today.

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Valentine's Day, Rachel Greenwald.

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I've known Rachel for a while.

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She's from Denver, but she's really hit it big with this matchmaking, so it should be an interesting conversation.

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Yeah, For me Valentine's Day.

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I don't know how you feel and I wonder what our listeners feel.

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I hate Valentine's Day.

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I hate Valentine's Day and I hate Mother's Day.

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There's so much pressure to send Valentine's cards, Tell your mother you love her.

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Do you guys do this?

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How do you?

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I always wonder what other people feel about these holidays.

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Now we're in agreement on this.

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We stopped celebrating Valentine's Day years ago, and when the kids were little I used to buy them chocolate, until the day that the dog got into the chocolate, and then that was the end of that as well.

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Oh, that's so funny.

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I grew up in a candy store.

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Family Easter, valentine's and Christmas were the biggest holidays, so it's weird for me now not to be buying chocolates and Valentine hearts, but it just seems so contrived, no to be buying chocolates and Valentine hearts, but it just seems so contrived.

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No, I agree, I said this to my whole family you have to love and appreciate me all year long, every day.

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Yeah Well, good luck with that, but you're sure you're ahead of me on that one.

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But you're absolutely right.

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All right, we need to get started here.

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Many parents of adult kids do worry Is my son or daughter going to meet their life partner?

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And I have to say, just having my daughter she's been in this relationship for 16 years but she just got married.

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I do feel good when my kids are in a relationship and it's someone I like, although, again, we don't really have a choice, but I feel like someone that's going to love them and hopefully care for them.

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I feel a little bit like they have their soulmate and that, I don't want to say, leaves me off the hook.

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But I am off the hook a little bit and for many young people it is getting harder and harder and harder.

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I think we're going to learn a lot today.

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I think we're going to learn about what the dating seems like for them, what she does as a matchmaker, and explore how we might get involved.

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Yeah, I also along those lines.

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I recently read an article that said that, while just over half of all American adults in the United States are single, a recent survey by the Pew Research Center found that 61% of never marrieds still hope to find a spouse one day.

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Which ends up to me being a lot of unhappily single people under the age of 40 and a lot of anxious boomer parents like us, I suspect.

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You're exactly right.

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Why don't you go ahead and introduce Rachel and let's get this party started?

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I would love to.

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Rachel Greenwald has clients across the United States of all ages.

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She's a New York Times bestselling author and relationship expert and has appeared on hundreds of television, radio and podcast shows, including the Today Show, abc Nightline, cbs Morning, npr and many others.

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She's been featured in publications such as the New York Times, fortune, the Harvard Business Review, the New Yorker, the Atlantic and oh, the Oprah Magazine.

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She was responsible for 908 marriages and counting that's pretty amazing, I know right, it's a crazy number and is the author of two dating books.

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Have Him at Hello, which is confessions from a thousand guys about what makes them fall in love or never call back and Find a Husband After 35, using what I learned at Harvard Business School.

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So welcome, rachel.

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Is there anything that we missed that you would like to share with our audience before we get started?

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No, thank you so much.

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I'm really excited to be here today.

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We're glad to have you Tell us how you got into this.

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This whole I mean matchmaking is something that's been around for a long time.

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We've all watched Fiddler on the Roof, but how did you get into this?

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Well, actually it was pretty accidental.

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It was about 22 years ago.

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I was pregnant with my third child and I was really just looking for flexible work from home.

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I did a bunch of research and eventually decided that writing a book would be really flexible and I could pick it up and put it down whenever I wanted.

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So I got this idea to write a book that eventually was called Find a Husband After 35, using what I learned at Harvard Business School.

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It was actually the publicity from the book that led to inquiries on my website from potential matchmaking clients.

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I didn't even know it was a business, but that's how it got started.

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It's funny because back then the business of matchmaking was in its infancy.

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There were maybe I don't know like 25 matchmakers in the US back then and now there's probably 6,000.

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So there has been this massive growth.

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I even teach a training course now for matchmakers, because there's so many getting into the business.

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I call it the Love MBA and it's a three-day retreat where I teach matchmakers sort of the ethics and the strategy and all the tips and techniques to help singles find love.

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Gosh, I had no idea.

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I used to watch that show on reality TV the Matchmaker, that woman with the long dark hair, do you remember?

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Did you ever watch that, rachel, I forget what it was even called, but every often when you want to just relax, you tune into something like that.

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It was Patty Stanger and the Millionaire Matchmaker.

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That's what it was, oh I should clarify that.

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that is nothing like what I do.

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Okay, she was built for reality TV.

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She's very entertaining, but the actual substance of what a quality matchmaker does is very different.

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Well, we're going to learn about it, right, Kirsten?

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Yeah, that's great, that's fun.

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You know the premise of our podcast Bite your Tongue.

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So how can parents be helpful in this without really being intrusive?

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It seems like something that maybe we shouldn't be involved in.

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Yet articles we've read.

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Things you've said seem like we might be a bit of a help, or a matchmaker could be a bit of a help.

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Yeah, I think that's an interesting question because it really depends how you're defining help.

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So the key part of your question was how can parents be helpful?

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A lot of parents tell me that they feel like they're meddling, even if they ask a simple question like so are you dating anyone these days?

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So I think there are many ways that parents can be helpful in the dating arena, but there are usually two scenarios.

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There's adult kids who speak openly with their parents about their love lives, and then there's adult kids who hate talking about dating with their parents and want to avoid it at all costs.

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So the latter group I guess I'd call the avoiders.

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They're more challenging to help.

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Of course, it can be a triggering topic for adults for many reasons.

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So I guess the key is to figure out the unique set of reasons why your child wants to avoid the topic.

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You need to kind of pick a time when you know they're relatively relaxed not when they're hungry or tired or stressed about work but try to have an open dialogue with them to find out why they bristle about this topic before you can even try to help them.

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So you want to clarify with them that you don't want to talk about their dating life right now, but you're simply asking why it's a sore subject with you and you want to approach that conversation, like all conversations you have with your kids, with curiosity and using phrases like tell me more about that or help me understand phrases that are not judgmental.

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I think that there are a lot of ways that you can help.

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First, by understanding why the dynamics are occurring that may be concerning you, or even just that you're curious about.

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If they're choosing the wrong partners again and again.

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You know, maybe they could benefit from a great therapist to talk about their childhood issues or issues around self-esteem before they can even start to develop a healthy relationship.

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You can help simply having this conversation to learn if they feel like your questions imply that they've disappointed you or there's something wrong with them and you should address that first, because you can't really help if they are resistant.

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Remember that young adults benefit much more from your questions than your advice.

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So if you're trying to help them, it's not really about advising or doing.

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It's really just probing and asking them what they think they should do in the situation before you jump in with any advice.

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That applies to anything that we do as parents.

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Share stories about your own dating situations.

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Our brains are wired to retain stories, and that's part of having an open dialogue with them, so just basic open conversation can be the first helpful situation for avoiders.

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There's, of course, another group of adult kids who talk openly about their dating lives with you, and maybe the best way to help them is simply to offer financial assistance if you can afford it, like gifting them services for matchmaking or dating coaching may even be not just lifting a financial burden off of them, but maybe lifting an important psychological burden from them.

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A lot of young adults could even afford dating services, but by paying money for something that that age group fundamentally thinks should happen organically or serendipitously, it can make them feel like there's something wrong with them, which, of course, there's not.

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Dating is just really complicated today.

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Along that note of how complicated dating is today.

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It seems to me and my children are obviously older, but it seems to me that things have changed a lot.

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The meaning of what dating is has changed quite a bit, and I don't know how much of that is this remote working pandemic, the situation with their phones and other technology, instagram.

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You know how much of that is this remote working pandemic, the situation with their phones and other technology, instagram, social media, plus all the dating sites.

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It's just a lot going on.

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So how do you see all of this sort of affecting what's happening in the dating world today?

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Well, first and foremost, you're right that dating has completely changed from when all of us were the ages of our adult kids now, first of all, it's super common to have dating apps and to get to know somebody electronically before you even meet them in person, and that's just the way it is.

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I think that parents need to understand the pressure and the way that dating is so time consuming.

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Now there's a lot of gamification of dating with these apps, where people are constantly swiping and they're making quick judgments based on someone's photo or a certain line that they wrote in their profile.

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Some people say that dating has, and therefore dating apps have become all about who's the best comedian, because there's so much pressure to be clever in your dating texts on online.

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So people are, first of all, turning this into a game.

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They're making quick and superficial judgments about things that probably aren't even true in person if they met in real life, and then it can be very demoralizing because it takes so much time.

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There's a really bad epidemic of ghosting people, meaning someone that just disappears after expressing some interest.

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Today, more than anything else, is a learned skill, and that's something that wasn't true for us.

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What do you mean?

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A learned skill?

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I don't get that.

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I was never a great dater.

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Ever, praise the Lord, I met someone that understood who I was.

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but why is it different now than it was before, other than these dating apps, first of all, the skill that your kids have to learn is kind of like marketing, because dating is mostly online, it is not as organic and natural as it used to be before dating apps.

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So the skill involved is, first of all, learning that it's an entirely visual medium to begin with, and so knowing the kinds of photos that you need to select for yourself is the first skill.

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And the way that it's different, because people are taking two seconds to look at your photo and then swiping left or right and making all sorts of assumptions about whether they're attracted to you, whether you're their type.

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Maybe they'll look at your job and then make all sorts of assumptions about your job title or anything that you write in your profile.

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That you may think is just a casual throwaway line or you're trying to be funny, but somebody else takes the wrong way.

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The coaching that's involved in helping these young adults be more successful in dating revolves around helping them select photos that represent authentically who they are, but also putting their best foot forward, and professional photos, for example, is the first thing that I advise young adults.

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I mean not just young adults, but singles at any age.

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It kind of goes against the grain of what you think in your brain should be happening in finding love.

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You know we're all victims of romantic comedies and Hollywood versions that you just meet somebody serendipitously and love will just spark.

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But with this intermediary today, that is the online dating app, this digital medium, there's a whole different sequence and process that has to happen.

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It involves more of a marketing technique upfront, so that people want to lean in and get to know you better and hopefully meet you offline, and that's not something that we had as dinner conversation around the table when our kids were growing up.

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Right, they don't learn this in college or high school.

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This is actually a skill, in the way that learning a foreign language is a skill.

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This is interesting to me.

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We need to know what a matchmaker does.

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I had no idea that you would help them with online kinds of things too, because I have to say, every wedding I've gone to probably the last five years, if you ask the bride and groom, or bride and bride or whoever it might be they met online.

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And I remember back when I thought, oh, you met someone on the computer.

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That's terrible.

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Now it seems like the best way to meet people, so a matchmaker might help with that.

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Let's start with what a matchmaker does.

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Okay, well, so I should really start with saying that matchmakers can't always help.

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Let me clarify that, because it's not always the solution.

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Matchmakers aren't like a silver bullet for everything that could be going on with your adult child and their dating life.

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There could be emotional issues, maybe they're depressed or they're having some kind of self-destructive behavior, or there could even be something more subtle happening, like if they have I don't know misaligned goals.

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They say they want to date, but then their actions aren't consistent with that desire, so they're working too much or traveling too much.

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Maybe they meet someone great, but then it takes two or three weeks to schedule the next date because they've made themselves so busy and then they're unwilling to cancel their plan.

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So by the time they're even available to pursue someone, the initial connection is fizzled.

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There could be all sorts of things like that that a matchmaker can't fix.

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Those are maybe things that you can point out, but it's not going to solve the problem for every situation.

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But if an adult child is genuinely interested and committed to finding love, whether it's even just to practice dating or to have a serious relationship, then a matchmaker can help in a lot of ways.

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I guess a big way would be simply as a sounding board, like a thought partner, sort of an independent, objective person in their life who wants them to be happy without the biased agenda that their family has.

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The family says are they going to fit into our family culture?

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Which isn't the same as an independent observer like a matchmaker who says are they going to fit into our family culture?

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Which isn't the same as an independent observer.

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Like a matchmaker who says will this person make you happy?

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Matchmakers can offer advice that isn't laden with judgment or even childhood triggers.

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Also, I think a really important thing that I always try to insert into every matchmaker relationship I have with clients is that I try to see the gap between what someone says they want versus what they actually need to be happy.

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So I try to pose questions that someone thinking deeper and challenging their assumptions about what they're looking for.

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I'm not afraid to call out the truth.

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I might say that hairstyle isn't working for you.

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You know that's something I can say and you can't.

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As a parent or I can tell them.

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They have a habit of interrupting people.

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They should talk less and listen more.

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These are things that you can hear from an outside person, but not your parent.

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You know I obviously try to do it in a sensitive but helpful way so it's not triggering.

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But also, matchmakers get feedback from dates that the adult child goes on.

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Oh, I didn't know that.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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So I always call both the client and their date after they meet and I get really candid feedback to help them fine tunetune their behaviors or things they're saying that didn't land well so they can adjust it next time in the future.

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We never get feedback.

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We don't have access to feedback.

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We just know that somebody didn't call us back and want a second date, but we have no idea why a matchmaker can be that intermediary.

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But I guess what most people say is the most helpful thing, just from a process standpoint or logistics, is that a matchmaker or dating coach can just help make the process easier and less time consuming and less volatile, because there's a lot of ups and downs in this dating app process where you swipe right on somebody that you like but they don't swipe right back and that's demoralizing.

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Or somebody is just flat out dishonest and when you meet them in person they're nothing like what they said on their profile.

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The dates through a matchmaker are vetted and they're handed to you instead of making you go through all the rejections and the time consuming back and forth that may end up turning into nothing and wasting your time.

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Very interesting.

00:21:18.692 --> 00:21:19.074
You've had.

00:21:19.074 --> 00:21:22.845
A number of successful marriages have occurred from your matchmaking.

00:21:22.845 --> 00:21:26.232
How important is marriage to young adults today?

00:21:26.232 --> 00:21:27.982
Has there been a shift in that?

00:21:27.982 --> 00:21:38.673
There was a recent article by opinion columnist David Brooks in the New York Times who advises young adults to prioritize marriage over their careers.

00:21:38.673 --> 00:21:41.203
It received some intense pushback.

00:21:41.203 --> 00:21:47.404
Have you seen this book and do you have any thoughts about this and marriage and where our kids are today?

00:21:48.146 --> 00:21:50.635
Yeah, actually, I'm so glad you brought that up.

00:21:50.635 --> 00:21:51.660
I love David Brooks.

00:21:51.660 --> 00:21:54.208
He's one of my favorite columnists.

00:21:54.208 --> 00:21:56.915
I love him too yeah, he's great.

00:21:57.136 --> 00:22:05.593
So, if I remember correctly, his point was simply that young people aren't so much against marriage, it's just not their top priority.

00:22:05.593 --> 00:22:14.266
So they feel like their career is at the core of their life and marriage is something that would be nice to have sometime down the road.

00:22:14.266 --> 00:22:16.113
I agree with his premise.

00:22:16.113 --> 00:22:38.663
I really love that piece that he wrote that you should use your youth to prioritize romantic relationships to get some practice so that when it comes time to seek marriage and you're ready to start dating maybe the last person you're ever going to date that you have knowledge of what works for you and what doesn't, even if that time that you're going to get serious is a long time off.

00:22:38.663 --> 00:22:45.987
So again, dating and selecting a life partner is a learned skill, it's not a natural instinct, even though that doesn't sound romantic.

00:22:45.987 --> 00:22:58.513
As parents, I think it's more important to invest in dating resources for your child than it was, say, to invest in an SAT tutor when they were applying to college.

00:22:58.513 --> 00:23:05.814
Where they went to college is far less important in their overall life happiness than who they choose in a mate.

00:23:05.814 --> 00:23:12.032
We're often really bad predictors of that, not just young adults, but regular adults too.

00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:17.711
There's actually this funny phrase that we use behind closed doors as matchmakers.

00:23:17.711 --> 00:23:20.544
We say that buyers are liars.

00:23:20.544 --> 00:23:34.324
It's termed from real estate where people go into a real estate agent and they say I want this style architecture, I want to buy a house in this neighborhood, this is my budget, oh, and it has to have a pool.

00:23:34.324 --> 00:23:43.882
And the realtor runs around and shows them everything that fits exactly what their specifications are, and the home buyer just says no, no, no, no, doesn't feel right.

00:23:43.882 --> 00:23:50.359
And then, maybe a little later, the realtor says can I show you something different?

00:23:50.359 --> 00:23:54.131
Can I show you this house that I think you might like?

00:23:54.131 --> 00:23:58.991
It's a different architecture, different budget, different neighborhood and it doesn't have a pool.

00:23:58.991 --> 00:24:03.010
And the buyer walks in and says it's perfect, I love it.

00:24:03.259 --> 00:24:07.111
It's just exactly the same thing in dating, where buyers are liars.

00:24:07.111 --> 00:24:10.752
They come into my office and they tell me exactly what they want.

00:24:10.752 --> 00:24:23.291
They want a certain height, a certain hair color, a certain career description or whatever it is, and it's usually superficial or external markers.

00:24:23.291 --> 00:24:28.771
They often say I love to ski, so the person has to ski.

00:24:28.771 --> 00:24:34.339
Ultimately, those just aren't the things that end up making them happy in a long-term relationship.

00:24:34.339 --> 00:24:43.048
A matchmaker usually tries to discern the difference between what someone says they want versus what they actually need to be happy.

00:24:43.048 --> 00:24:54.948
I think that's a process that David Brooks was getting at when he said focus on dating and prioritizing relationships when you're younger, so you get that practice and you learn about yourself.

00:24:55.991 --> 00:24:56.737
That's so interesting.

00:24:56.737 --> 00:25:06.873
I have about a thousand questions going through my mind, but I'm going to start with one and get to the well, the one I want down the road is the difference between a matchmaker and a dating coach, because you seem to be using those interchangeably.

00:25:06.873 --> 00:25:08.359
But first I want to ask this.

00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:11.530
I thought of this question when you said professional photos and stuff.

00:25:11.530 --> 00:25:17.641
I guess I just feel like and again maybe I can't wrap my head around completely how times have changed.

00:25:17.641 --> 00:25:22.674
I worry I don't want to change myself too much when I'm meeting someone.

00:25:22.674 --> 00:25:29.255
I want someone to like me for who I am, not for what I created through my profile or through how.

00:25:29.255 --> 00:25:32.642
The dating coach is asking me to not interrupt.

00:25:32.642 --> 00:25:33.770
I interrupt all the time.

00:25:33.770 --> 00:25:37.862
Whoever's going to marry me better be ready for that, because that's my personality.

00:25:37.862 --> 00:25:45.759
How do I give my whole self of who I am but still work within your parameters that you're talking about?

00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:46.000
Does that?

00:25:46.020 --> 00:25:46.682
make any sense.

00:25:46.682 --> 00:25:48.712
It totally does, denise.

00:25:48.712 --> 00:25:54.431
I'm so glad you asked that because it is something that is on everyone's mind.

00:25:54.431 --> 00:26:01.308
I think the first thing you have to realize it goes back to something I said earlier about the skill of dating.

00:26:01.308 --> 00:26:03.313
Today is marketing.

00:26:03.313 --> 00:26:07.961
But I want to really clarify this because it's about sequence.

00:26:08.781 --> 00:26:29.813
Because dating has moved online, there is inherently a process of somebody looking at a photo and deciding whether or not they want to learn more about you, and so the game then becomes getting offline and meeting in person so that two people can really get to know each other.

00:26:29.813 --> 00:26:36.375
If you don't have good photos not misleading photos I want to be really clear but just good photos.

00:26:36.375 --> 00:26:42.272
Photos in outside natural light, photos where you're smiling, not where you're wearing sunglasses.

00:26:42.272 --> 00:26:58.162
Photos where you're wearing clothing that actually is flattering and not rumpled clothing or baggy clothing where somebody just doesn't even get a sense of whether you're fit and healthy or whatever it is that could be misleading about the photo.

00:26:58.162 --> 00:27:04.056
Some people, by the way, put photos with their dog covering their body.

00:27:04.056 --> 00:27:07.143
It almost looks like the dog is a human shield.

00:27:07.143 --> 00:27:14.344
There are just all sorts of psychology reasons why photos aren't working for them, just to get in person.

00:27:14.344 --> 00:27:20.346
It's not about pretending to be somebody you're not or putting up misleading photos.

00:27:20.346 --> 00:27:24.214
It's just trying to get that first meeting In the job world.

00:27:24.214 --> 00:27:31.615
If you were looking for a job, you put together a resume that is your best foot forward.

00:27:31.615 --> 00:27:39.538
It's talking about your accomplishments and trying to show off the best version of yourself just to get the interview.

00:27:39.538 --> 00:27:43.941
And then, once you're in the interview, then it becomes a question of mutual fit.

00:27:43.941 --> 00:27:46.190
So the sequence here is really important.

00:27:46.190 --> 00:27:52.119
Of course no one should change to catch a husband or catch a wife.

00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:57.934
The nuance of dating advice isn't about trickery.

00:27:57.934 --> 00:28:18.739
It's about making a great first impression so the other person sees you at their best and sees the traditionally desirable parts first, so that they develop an attraction and an emotion for you, so that then they can slowly start to see the whole person that you are and evaluate the whole package.

00:28:18.739 --> 00:28:30.693
So maybe I can give you an example you mentioned you interrupt all the time, but your husband loves you, I assume, and so he takes the interruption with all the other good parts.

00:28:30.693 --> 00:28:35.611
I'm really bossy, for example, but my husband still loves me, so he deals with it.

00:28:35.611 --> 00:28:48.404
But if I acted really bossy in our first date I don't know that he would have had the patience to get to know all of me so that he could then take the good with the bad.

00:28:48.625 --> 00:28:55.317
If that makes any sense, that makes a lot more sense.

00:28:55.317 --> 00:29:10.315
Yeah, you want to be flexible enough to say this part is something that I'm going to have to live with, or we have developed good communication skills so we can talk about something that is bothering me.

00:29:10.315 --> 00:29:19.045
Those are skills and behaviors and a maturity that comes through deepening a relationship.

00:29:19.045 --> 00:29:27.459
That comes through deepening a relationship and it's not going to be visible in the superficial dimension that is an online dating profile on a dating app.

00:29:27.459 --> 00:29:34.760
So, again, the game is just about getting the first date where someone can get to know you better.

00:29:37.851 --> 00:29:47.560
So we're going to take a quick break because many of you know, I went to this podcast conference in Denver a few weeks ago and I met so many people with so many great podcasts.

00:29:47.560 --> 00:29:50.234
I've shared a few of them and I want to share one more.

00:29:50.234 --> 00:29:53.266
That's so much fun, especially for Valentine's day.

00:29:53.266 --> 00:30:01.983
It's called Behind the Swipe and it's a podcast that takes you inside the world of online dating in the second half of life.

00:30:01.983 --> 00:30:08.784
A lot of us always wonder you know, if something happened to our spouse or if we got divorced, would we date again?

00:30:09.990 --> 00:30:23.374
It features real, unfiltered stories and perspectives from men and women in their 40s, 50s and beyond as they navigate the often confusing and sometimes thrilling experience of dating with a swipe.

00:30:23.374 --> 00:30:25.259
It sounds so scary to me.

00:30:25.259 --> 00:30:48.772
Each week, hoyt the host and an expert guest host explore topics ranging from long-distance relationships, profile fails to sex after 60, all through the lens of men and women who have taken the plunge and are seeking partners online, especially with this whole golden bachelor thing or silver bachelor, whatever it's called.

00:30:48.772 --> 00:30:54.570
This is quite an interesting look into dating later in life behind the swipe.

00:30:54.570 --> 00:30:57.913
I hope you'll listen In the world of Tinder.

00:30:58.913 --> 00:31:03.194
Have you seen that changing how people date?

00:31:03.194 --> 00:31:11.599
Because it doesn't seem to me that Tinder is a dating site necessarily more of the hookup reputation and especially for younger people.

00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:14.060
But it's been around a long time.

00:31:14.080 --> 00:31:31.018
I know a lot of people who meet on Tinder as well as every other dating app like Hinge or Bumble.

00:31:31.018 --> 00:31:36.692
It's just this entity out there, whether it's Tinder or another app.

00:31:36.692 --> 00:31:49.259
All dating apps or dating sites have losers, jerks, weirdos and creeps, but they also have wonderful human beings who would make a great husband or wife.

00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:51.243
These are mass mediums.

00:31:51.243 --> 00:32:12.832
There's just so much volume that you either have to invest the time to do it yourself and start swiping and texting and then going on a lot of first dates to weed through the ones who are bad to find the ones who are good, or you can have a dating coach do that on your behalf.

00:32:12.832 --> 00:32:21.951
Denise, you asked earlier about the difference between a matchmaker and a dating coach, actually a third category, which is an online dating concierge.

00:32:23.013 --> 00:32:27.121
So I can tell you the difference between all three.

00:32:27.121 --> 00:32:28.403
Okay, go for it.

00:32:28.403 --> 00:32:58.314
So an online dating concierge is someone that logs into your dating profile for you and swipes and messages on your behalf, almost impersonating you and this is a very popular and common thing now, and their job is to try to get you as fast as possible to a phone call or video date or in-person coffee date.

00:32:58.314 --> 00:33:04.713
They just try to take away that top filter that is so time consuming and annoying.

00:33:04.713 --> 00:33:12.959
It's just full of superficial chatter, the swiping and then the initial conversation like where are you from and what do you do?

00:33:12.959 --> 00:33:28.064
Your online dating concierge is answering all those annoying first demographic data questions that are really superficial and then trying to convert it, if the guy or the girl sounds good, into a phone call for you.

00:33:28.064 --> 00:33:30.575
That's an online dating concierge.

00:33:30.575 --> 00:33:32.759
They also write your profile for you.

00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:39.458
They help you get good photos, but it's all focused on making the dating app process less painful.

00:33:39.458 --> 00:33:48.741
Then a dating coach is someone who is giving you advice, similar to, I don't know, like a personal trainer at a gym.

00:33:48.741 --> 00:33:53.179
You're doing the work of dating, but they're on the sidelines telling you.

00:33:53.179 --> 00:34:01.731
Here are some ways that you can do something different that might have a different outcome, or I've noticed you tend to do this.

00:34:01.731 --> 00:34:05.104
Maybe if you tried it another way, it might work better.

00:34:05.104 --> 00:34:14.391
Also, just being an accountability partner and a cheerleader in the process, because it really is a process and it can get very discouraging.

00:34:14.391 --> 00:34:22.304
A dating coach is really advice giving and being an objective partner in your dating journey.

00:34:22.304 --> 00:34:31.269
And then, finally, a matchmaker does a lot of the work of a dating coach but also adds in one-on-one introductions.

00:34:31.269 --> 00:34:41.965
So a matchmaker has a private Rolodex of people that they know or who have they've met, and joined their Rolodex through their website.

00:34:42.471 --> 00:34:47.099
I mentioned earlier that there are almost 6,000 matchmakers now in the US.

00:34:47.099 --> 00:34:58.313
Many of us are part of internal private groups, either on Facebook or WhatsApp, and we have access to each other's clients and resources.

00:34:58.313 --> 00:35:04.791
So we collaborate all the time with each other and we do a lot of things.

00:35:04.791 --> 00:35:09.829
We reach out to our private alumni networks from our colleges or our grad schools.

00:35:09.829 --> 00:35:20.478
We hire recruiters to go to events or experiences and try to look for single people that might be appropriate fits for our clients.

00:35:20.478 --> 00:35:31.532
Whether it's going to a synagogue event or a TEDx conference or I don't know a fundraiser for a good cause.

00:35:31.532 --> 00:35:37.512
We hire recruiters to go out and look for matches that fit what we're looking for for our client.

00:35:37.512 --> 00:35:53.313
So there are a lot of ways that we find people and we then think about what our client really needs to be happy and try to make vetted and high quality introductions, one-on-one, to set them up on a date.

00:35:54.114 --> 00:35:54.974
What's the median?

00:35:55.135 --> 00:35:55.275
age.

00:35:55.275 --> 00:36:05.085
I don't know about the median age, because the range is probably anywhere from 23 to 80.

00:36:05.105 --> 00:36:06.567
Oh my gosh.

00:36:06.567 --> 00:36:07.452
But I'll tell you.

00:36:07.452 --> 00:36:24.432
What's really interesting is that the biggest growth segment in my business and many of my colleagues is the surge of parents hiring dating coaches and matchmakers for their young adults, hiring dating coaches and matchmakers for their young adults.

00:36:24.432 --> 00:36:26.516
And this is when I say young adults, I mean early twenties to early forties.

00:36:26.516 --> 00:36:37.952
I had a dad recently call me about his 42 year old daughter, who he really just genuinely wanted to help, and he said is there anything I can do in those cases?

00:36:37.952 --> 00:36:45.318
I say look, if I work with your young adult child, let me be clear that your role is just to pay the bill.

00:36:45.318 --> 00:36:46.581
It can't be involved.

00:36:46.581 --> 00:36:49.490
And so the client is your young adult child.

00:36:49.490 --> 00:36:59.918
And so if I'm going to work with them, I need them to be interested in this and we can have an initial conversation, but then it's like doctor-patient confidentiality.

00:36:59.918 --> 00:37:04.472
My role is to help them and I will send you the bill.

00:37:05.012 --> 00:37:07.018
This is making so much more sense to me.

00:37:07.018 --> 00:37:14.431
I think about something I've always said that the most important decision our children will make in their lives is who they select.

00:37:14.431 --> 00:37:17.338
As a spouse, especially, you want it to last.

00:37:17.338 --> 00:37:22.503
I love a lot of what you offer and I think parents, whether they pay for it or suggest it, I think it's a great.

00:37:22.503 --> 00:37:27.295
Last, I love a lot of what you offer and I think parents, whether they pay for it or suggest it, I think it's a great idea.

00:37:27.315 --> 00:37:30.465
I know the whole social media and all that, but I'm most concerned about kids who are working remotely.

00:37:30.465 --> 00:37:34.135
They graduate college and they're sitting in their apartments all day.

00:37:34.135 --> 00:37:40.760
I met all of my best friends in my early work years and continue to have those friends, so I worry a lot about that.

00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:52.291
But what I really want to ask is in them selecting their partners on their own, do you think that they choose their romantic partners based on their family environment they were raised in?

00:37:52.291 --> 00:37:55.358
How they grow up influence who they're looking for?

00:37:55.358 --> 00:37:58.731
Do they generally look for someone that's like their parents?

00:37:58.731 --> 00:38:00.335
What do you see going on here?

00:38:00.594 --> 00:38:01.797
Yeah, such a good question.

00:38:01.797 --> 00:38:09.635
There are a lot of dynamics that are at play and I think from the parent's perspective it's not always obvious.

00:38:09.635 --> 00:38:23.617
It's usually not obvious why kids choose a particular partner and what looks like someone who's similar or opposite of their mom or dad on the surface it's usually not indicative of what's underneath in their subconscious.

00:38:23.617 --> 00:38:35.416
Maybe it's something really simple and obvious on the surface, Like I don't know, like my mom worked full-time while we were growing up, so I want to find a woman who's passionate about her career.

00:38:35.416 --> 00:38:40.677
Or my dad had a great sense of humor, so I want a guy who makes me laugh.

00:38:40.677 --> 00:38:47.083
Sometimes it can be simple like that and it's visible on the surface, but usually it's not that straightforward.

00:38:47.083 --> 00:38:51.481
I don't know if you've heard of this well-known therapist and author named Lori Gottlieb.

00:38:52.130 --> 00:38:53.509
Oh yeah, read her books yeah.

00:38:54.032 --> 00:38:54.934
Yeah, she's great.

00:38:54.934 --> 00:39:00.358
She says this line that I'll never forget, which is that we marry our unfinished business.

00:39:00.358 --> 00:39:11.918
Our young adults might say I'm going to subconsciously, by the way that they might marry someone who's the opposite of whatever hurt they had when they were growing up.

00:39:11.918 --> 00:39:16.614
Unfortunately, we have a radar for what feels comfortable, what feels like home.

00:39:16.614 --> 00:39:20.320
We go after people who feel comfortable.

00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:25.675
Our subconscious mind might say oh, you look familiar, come closer.

00:39:25.675 --> 00:39:33.367
Your inner child is saying I'm going to pick a partner who gives me all the things I didn't get when I was growing up but I wish I had.

00:39:33.367 --> 00:39:46.634
Their conscious mind might think this person doesn't look anything like my parents on the surface, but then, when they get into that relationship that they're having with their boyfriend or girlfriend, they're surprised how familiar it feels.

00:39:47.335 --> 00:39:53.552
This kind of dynamic happens if they have a childhood hurt, and again, it doesn't have to be a deep and serious hurt.

00:39:53.632 --> 00:40:01.927
It could be something that is just perceived as a pain or a loss when they were growing up.

00:40:01.927 --> 00:40:21.621
You may not have ever known about it, but if they don't work out that unfinished business as an adult, either through therapy or some deep introspection or maybe even trial and error in other relationships, then that's going to play out in unhealthy dynamics in their choice of a partner.

00:40:21.621 --> 00:40:31.626
I guess my advice to parents is that if they're perplexed by the choices that their adult kids are making, they need to get curious and not judgmental about those choices.

00:40:31.626 --> 00:40:50.217
When the moment is right, maybe you could ask your child to share what they love most about their boyfriend or girlfriend and really listen and respond by just saying oh, that's interesting, tell me more about that, instead of trying to convey some sort of judgment like oh, I don't know why you think that's important.

00:40:50.217 --> 00:40:52.713
That never mattered to me when I was dating your father.

00:40:52.713 --> 00:40:59.940
It's just this game of listening to try to understand how childhood dynamics are playing out as adults.

00:41:00.503 --> 00:41:02.110
I want to piggyback on this question.

00:41:02.110 --> 00:41:05.135
Kirsten asked about the hookup culture.

00:41:05.135 --> 00:41:10.635
It seems to me that this generation does hook up more quickly than past generations.

00:41:10.635 --> 00:41:13.585
How does that impact finding a spouse?

00:41:13.585 --> 00:41:21.496
Do they waste time because this sexual excitement makes them feel like they found the partner and they realize when they really get to know them it's not the right partner.

00:41:21.496 --> 00:41:23.661
How do you advise your clients on that?

00:41:24.469 --> 00:41:26.914
Well, it is a very real dynamic.

00:41:26.914 --> 00:41:32.351
It is happening and we as parents are not going to have much to say about it.

00:41:32.351 --> 00:41:47.119
We can pretty much just tell them to be safe and use protection and get tested, because you may or may not know that 50% of all adults over 18 have an STD 50%, did you say.

00:41:47.458 --> 00:41:53.432
Yes, 50% some kind of STD and it doesn't mean they're having symptoms.

00:41:53.432 --> 00:41:59.974
It's not that it's always known, but I do always advise people to get tested before being with a new partner.

00:41:59.974 --> 00:42:11.494
I like to focus on the things I can influence, and young adults having sex more quickly than we used to when we were their age is not something I can influence.

00:42:11.494 --> 00:42:32.798
I can certainly tell somebody to spend more time getting to know a person before jumping into bed with them, but I think what has been really interesting in my business since the pandemic is that this may sound strange, because the pandemic was terrible in a million ways, but it was great for dating.

00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:35.670
Yeah, I've heard that, I know I just well.

00:42:35.670 --> 00:42:46.661
Our friend, our mutual friend's son, met his wife that he recently married during COVID, and they sat on a park bench six feet apart from each other for several months and talked.

00:42:47.190 --> 00:42:51.561
And that's a direct outcome of this hookup culture.

00:42:51.561 --> 00:42:59.599
During the pandemic, you got to know someone better, either virtually or six feet apart before you took off your mask.

00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:08.692
It helped young adults focus on deeper and more important qualities that predict long-term happiness, without a lot of other distraction.

00:43:08.692 --> 00:43:13.141
I think those behaviors have maybe lingered.

00:43:13.141 --> 00:43:14.282
I don't know for sure.

00:43:14.282 --> 00:43:24.090
I don't have any statistics, but I think that the video dating component of meeting somebody has grown out of the pandemic.

00:43:24.090 --> 00:43:37.344
When you have a FaceTime date or a Zoom date before meeting in person, which became really normal during COVID, you do get to know somebody better before you have a physical interaction with them.

00:43:37.344 --> 00:43:40.282
I do think that was one good outcome.

00:43:40.282 --> 00:43:45.737
Also, by the way, the pandemic really helped people prioritize dating.

00:43:45.737 --> 00:44:00.681
The loneliness and isolation that came from quarantining really lit a fire under singles to realize that finding a long-term partner and finding love is maybe more important than their jobs.

00:44:01.230 --> 00:44:04.538
That's a really interesting shift, I think.

00:44:04.538 --> 00:44:09.079
I mean it's certainly a positive, I guess, of the pandemic, if there can be one.

00:44:09.882 --> 00:44:10.423
Absolutely.

00:44:10.423 --> 00:44:13.235
I want to get to the point that the role the family plays.

00:44:13.235 --> 00:44:28.139
When someone has met the significant other or let's say, your kid brings home someone and they've been dating a while, they're finally ready to introduce them to the family the family's going to be really important how they react to that person, how they welcome that person.

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We have a group text with our whole family.

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How soon do you include that person in the group text?

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Bonus Rewind: Navigating Your Adult Child's Dating Journey with Rachel Greenwald

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