Empathy and Boundaries: A New Approach to Parenting Adult Children

Transcript

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Hey everyone, welcome to another great episode rewind with Bite your Tongue the podcast.

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This is truly one episode everyone should listen to again.

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We welcome Dr Charles Fay of the legendary Love Logic approach to parenting.

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In the past their techniques were more appropriate for younger children, but today they're sharing some of their best strategies for building healthy relationships with our adult kids.

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We do a lot of role playing in this episode, so you'll hear the right words and the right tone to take when bringing up important issues with your adult kids.

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Also, one of my favorite lines from Dr Fay that I think about all the time is you can never consistently work harder on someone else's life than they are willing to do themselves.

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Meaning let go, folks.

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They're adults now.

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We hope you'll listen, so let's get started.

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Let's get something on the table right now.

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Our adult kids are responsible for their own lives.

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They're responsible for their own happiness.

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They're responsible for their own emotions.

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If we play the game in our hearts of blaming ourselves or allowing them to do that, we're allowing all of that to actually interfere with their ability to grow, because our guilt will come out in ways that cause enabling codependent behavior.

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Hello everyone.

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Welcome to Bite your Tongue the podcast.

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I'm Denise.

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And I'm Kirsten, and we hope you will join us as we explore the ins and outs of building healthy relationships with our adult children Together we'll speak with experts, share heartfelt stories and get timely advice addressing topics that matter most to you.

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Get ready to dive deep and learn, to build and nurture deep connections with our adult children and, of course, when, to bite our tongues.

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So let's get started.

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Hello everyone, this is Denise.

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Welcome to another episode of Bite your Tongue, the podcast.

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It's late February, folks, and pretty cold in Denver.

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I don't know about you, but I am certainly ready for winter to end, so maybe this episode will warm us all up just a bit.

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We're very excited about today's guest and in a second, kirsten is going to tell you all about him.

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Before we get to that, I have to say two very quick things.

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The first is to thank all of you for listening.

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It means so much to us to know that you're here with us, learning and exploring all these interesting topics.

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We appreciate you so much.

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The second is we're using our new microphones today, the ones we were able to purchase because so many of you supported our podcast by buying us a virtual cup of coffee.

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It's been quite a struggle to get this sound perfect, so we hope we're moving in the right direction.

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So, kirsten, I've babbled on long enough.

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I know you're particularly excited about today's guest, so take it away, thank you.

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Denise.

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I'm a huge Love Logic fan.

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I have been for many, many years.

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It was founded by Jim Fay, and his son, charles, has taken it over.

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Basically, they created a trusted approach to parenting, one that makes sense, it's easy to digest as parents, with real techniques that you can put into play immediately.

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So you can imagine I pretty much fell off my chair when Denise told me that we were going to be interviewing Charles Fay.

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Kirsten.

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I was excited about landing him too, because I too heard a lot about Charles Fay.

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I know he's internationally known, but I wonder if it's more in Colorado, because he's a Colorado native, I think, three generation Colorado native.

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I think three generation Colorado native I was surprised to hear that, yeah, but I think it has a little bit of a more personal touch for you too.

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Yeah, we've taken a few classes.

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We took the first toddler class and then, because I'm a slow learner, we took a refresher course when I think we had my third kid.

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Then we gathered a group of our friends who also had teenage kids and we put our own group together for a teenage class, which was amazing.

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What I'm really proud of is that you took these classes.

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Going to something like this and improving our techniques with our different children gives us a step up.

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We should get going.

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So it's my privilege today to introduce Dr Charles Fay, a co-founder and CEO of Love& Logic.

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He himself is a parent, an internationally recognized author, consultant and public speaker.

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Millions of educators, health professionals and parents worldwide have benefited from these techniques, and now that they're moving into the world of young adults, we're going to benefit too.

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So welcome, dr Fay.

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Why don't you start by telling us a little bit more about yourself?

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And now that they're moving into the world of young adults, we're going to benefit too.

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So welcome, dr Faye.

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Why don't you start by telling us a little bit more about yourself and tell us about the new book coming our way?

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Thank you so much.

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I feel so thankful to be with you to talk about Love and Logic, because it's been a passion of ours for many decades.

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I am a dad.

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I need you to know, everybody know I have a son who's 41, who's almost 30, and one who came along as an incredible surprise blessing and he is almost 17.

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We've got the adult kids, we've got the teenagers and of course, they were all newborns and toddlers.

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At one point in time I was raised with love and logic all newborns and toddlers.

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At one point in time, I was raised with love and logic.

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1970s two men, dr Foster Klein and my father, jim Fay, started developing the approach.

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The rest is really history.

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We've been going strong at it all those years.

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My dad is 90 and I still just enjoy him so much and enjoyed my mom until she passed away.

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So that's really what we're so much about is how can we have those relationships where they're based on love and respect and helping our kids grow and be strong, thoughtful, independent people?

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I think that early on there were probably some pretty impactful things that my parents did that really got me thinking wow, I ought to listen very carefully to them, and I remember one time not doing my chores and they didn't yell at me or they didn't guilt me, it's just it was time to go to T-ball and I was already at my baseball glove and my mom said oh Charlie, this is so sad, you didn't do your chores, I did them for you.

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But that burned up all my driving time and she didn't take me and I remember trying to be mad at her, but she was so nice about it that it created a bit of psychological conflict and really the listeners I want everybody to come in close here.

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This is about loving our kids in ways where we can hold them accountable, but they really have to own it.

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They have to look inside and say to themselves you know, honestly, my parents were very kind about it.

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I'm still irritated about it, but it was my decision that got me in trouble.

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It was my behavior that created this problem for me, and that's when change happens.

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And tell us about the book, because now you're moving into a little bit with young adults, which is what our listeners are most interested in.

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We also have to know if we didn't use love and logic raising our children and now they're young adults we want to certainly address, can we backpedal into it?

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But first tell us a little bit about the book and why you decided to move to the area of young adults.

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I am a psychologist and I started working with kids.

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I started seeing that the application for adults is so powerful.

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In fact, love and Logic is really about relationship.

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It's how we can have really good boundaries with people, how we can love them in ways where we unleash them to reach their potential and we're not going to fight with them all about all the time.

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That's the sadness in so many adult relationships is there's so many power struggles and so many hard feelings.

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Here's the good news Today you can decide to stop.

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Today you can decide to realize that nobody wins a power struggle and that there are some really powerful ways of influencing people so that the odds go way up that they'll make great decisions.

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That's what we really want to focus on, I think, is influence rather than control.

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Can you give us an example of a situation financial independence.

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So your kid is 25, can't quite get his or her act together, needs money.

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You don't want them to be homeless.

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What's our approach?

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First thing is to ask what do they need in the long run?

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Through this lens is to ask what do they need in the long run?

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Through this lens, I'm thinking what is going to help them develop skills and self-respect?

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What's going to do that in the long run, knowing that, regardless of what I do in the short term, they might be a little upset with me.

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In fact, they might be pretty upset with me if I do the right thing.

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A young adult comes to me and says I owe $17,000 on my truck and you're thinking, yeah, and it's okay to do that.

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By the way, that's a good skill from time to time to look at your kids and go.

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I don't know how to respond to that.

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I'm going to have to give that some thought.

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One thing I know for sure is I love you.

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So let's talk in a little while when I'm able to get my wits about me and I can handle this really well, and that's just called respect and being real.

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So don't feel like you have to have all the answers in the short term.

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Nobody does, I don't, okay.

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But let's say you get back together the kid, and the first step is empathy.

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I'm going to give you five steps.

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Right now we're going to get really practical friends and you're going to use these five steps over and over again with your adult kids, your young kids, your employees, your boss who knows?

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Does it work with spouses?

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too.

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Does anything work yeah?

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Yeah, okay, yeah, it's a little more delicate, I'd say.

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But it's such a great question because this is not about psychological manipulation, this is not about playing tricks on people.

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It's about a sincere relationship where we are empowering them.

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See, the great leaders, great parents, great spouses are always thinking how can I build this other person up so they don't need me, but they want to hang out with me.

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That's a blessing.

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So, anyway, empathy first.

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So, oh man, $17,000.

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Tell me about that, son.

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Well, you know, they said they're going to take it if I don't come up with them.

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I can't imagine how hard that must be.

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And so you're doing your best to demonstrate that you really care, because we know that people are more likely to listen to our ideas if they know that we truly care about them.

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You're holding back.

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I'll put it that way.

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You're saying I got to connect with this kid, this young adult or this older adult before I share any information.

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Okay, so lots of empathy.

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And then you're ready to move on to step two.

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When they're kind of looking at you like, is that all you got?

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Then ask this question.

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This is step two.

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What do you think?

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you're going to do.

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I love that.

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What do you think you're going to do?

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when you ask that because all of a sudden, this person is starting to process oh, this is my thing.

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See, what we're really doing here is handing the problem back in a loving way, but we're also sending a non-verbal message that is so powerful and encouraging, and the message is I believe in you like you can do it.

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You can do it kind of thing You're capable.

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Yeah right, it's huge, empowering them to make their own better decision.

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Love and logic is so big.

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High expectation messages to our kids, to our adult kids, to everybody.

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We know You're capable.

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Okay, what do you think you're going to do?

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And then they're going to look at you and probably say I don't know, I, what do you think you're going to do?

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And then they're going to look at you and probably say I don't know, I don't know.

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That's why I'm asking you.

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They usually don't.

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They're not impressed when you ask that question a lot of times, but it's still the right thing to do.

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So the third step and I'm going to try to be a good teacher First step empathy.

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Second step what do you think you're going to do?

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Third step is would you like to hear what some people decide to do or what some other people might decide to do and use that language so it's less threatening Instead of saying here's what you should do, or do you want to hear what you should do?

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No, that's, hey.

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Would you like to hear some thoughts about what some people decide to do?

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And a lot of times for people, you'll what, you know what, and, and I like to stop here, especially with adults, and say listen.

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The most important thing for me is that I care about you and I don't want to be bossy, I don't want to stick my nose into stuff that isn't my business, but because I love you, I I think I have some ideas that might be helpful.

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Do you really want to hear them?

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Because I need you to tell me if you don't want to hear them and if the adult says you know, no, I got this, I'm good.

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I really don't want to hear what you have to say.

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Respect that.

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And you've done your job.

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They're leaving with the $17,000 debt that you're not taking any part of.

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Thank you so much.

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That is such a great point.

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I mean, you've done your job.

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Your job is to hand the problem back and to show you a level.

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Your job is not to solve a problem.

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Right.

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And really, I think you can say to yourself I'm off the hook now I offered.

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Most of the time, though, people will change their minds because they're kind of desperate, or they'll say, no, no, I really do want to hear.

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And then you can say, great, and so I just have maybe two or three ideas.

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And again, let's be clear that I'm not here to tell you what to do.

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Okay, so you'd like to hear them.

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So, some people.

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This is step four.

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You give them a menu of options and don't try to be brilliant with it.

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They don't have to be fantastic or shattering ideas.

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People, the bank and see if there's any other arrangements that can be made.

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What are your thoughts?

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How do you think that might work for you?

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Well, I already tried that.

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They don't even care.

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All they want is their money.

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Oh, that's hard.

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A little more empathy.

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Another thought I have are you still interested?

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See, I'm always checking that.

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That's important friends or other people they know who might be willing to help them out.

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Notice, this isn't a great idea by the way I just broke away from the conversation with the kid.

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Notice, this isn't a great idea.

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See, the beauty of not having great ideas to share is it forces the other person to be smarter.

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Sometimes we have such great ideas that the other person doesn't have to think.

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See, love and logic.

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People are more than willing to not be very bright if it'll help other people be a lot brighter.

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I've never thought about that.

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It's an interesting idea.

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That's hard to do because you're sitting there saying sell the thing.

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thing I mean, you know exactly what needs to happen, right.

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And as a parent, you're thinking, okay, here's what, here's the fantasy of what you want to say, which isn't the right thing.

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Let's be clear.

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Don't try this at home, okay, but but the fantasy, you know what, what's in your heart, which is actually the right answer, but?

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But the wrong tactic is oh, for Pete's sake, why did you buy the thing in the first place and then you put the bigger rims on it and you got the stereo?

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I mean, I did not raise you to think that money grows on trees.

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Are you listening to?

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me and 95% of us I would say no, 100% of us have all said that at one time in our lives, and if we haven't, I'm shocked.

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I often say that human beings have a part of the brain called the lecture lobe and it remains dormant until we become parents.

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And then it just activates and it's got all the cliches for crying out loud.

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How many times do I have to tell you you don't know the sacrifices we've made, You're going to put your eye out, that kind of stuff.

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We can laugh about it and if you mess up, it's okay.

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I mean, let's get something on the table right now.

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Our adult kids are responsible for their own lives.

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They're responsible for their own happiness.

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They're responsible for their own emotions.

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If we play the game in our hearts of blaming ourselves or allowing them to do that, we're allowing all of that to actually interfere with their ability to grow, because our guilt will come out in ways that cause enabling codependent behavior.

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So we really have to be careful about remembering yeah, we did the best we could.

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Now they are responsible for their lives.

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What age do you say that?

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We've talked to a lot of people where they say this whole idea of sometimes it's not till 26.

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It used to be 18.

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You were an adult.

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Nowadays it's been extended.

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What do you think about that?

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And I also then want to go back to make sure we got all five and review those.

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I want to go back to that.

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But when you say they're an adult, they have to take care of themselves.

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When yeah Well, let's think about it a different way, and then I'll answer your question.

00:17:50.721 --> 00:17:51.103
Okay.

00:17:51.262 --> 00:17:52.086
We could never.

00:17:52.086 --> 00:18:00.054
Okay, I'm going to say this loud and clear we can never consistently work harder on somebody else's life than they are.

00:18:00.273 --> 00:18:03.003
We can never consistently work harder on somebody else's life than they are.

00:18:03.003 --> 00:18:08.397
We can never consistently work harder on somebody else's life than they are, and as parents, we did a lot of that, right yeah.

00:18:08.919 --> 00:18:11.963
And so now notice the language.

00:18:11.963 --> 00:18:17.102
Sometimes we do work harder on other people's lives because it's the right thing to do.

00:18:17.102 --> 00:18:19.792
They're in a crisis situation.

00:18:19.792 --> 00:18:21.756
They can't pull themselves out.

00:18:21.756 --> 00:18:27.265
We just, in our heart, know we need to be helicopters in this situation.

00:18:27.265 --> 00:18:35.029
If that's done occasionally, from time to time, when it's really needed, that's called being a kind, humane, good person.

00:18:35.029 --> 00:18:38.892
When we do it consistently, it's called sabotaging that other person's life because they'll become dependent on it.

00:18:38.892 --> 00:18:42.513
That other person's life because they'll become dependent on it.

00:18:42.513 --> 00:18:51.319
So this paradigm here of not working harder on a consistent basis informs everything we do.

00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:56.843
Let's answer the question when should we start backing away?

00:18:56.843 --> 00:19:14.096
We should start as soon as they are about seven years old, the oldest, where we start backing away, ideally speaking, allowing them to own stuff, and we step back and we hope and pray.

00:19:14.096 --> 00:19:22.059
They blow it every day and when they do, we say to ourselves oh, thank goodness, because of course I'm the kind of parent that doesn't allow mistakes that are life and death.

00:19:22.059 --> 00:19:31.976
We hope and pray they make plenty of poor decisions about the small stuff so that as they're growing, they develop a good understanding of cause and effect about the bigger stuff.

00:19:31.976 --> 00:19:43.144
So now let's just say that I'm a parent, I realize I've owned my kids' lives too much and now they're not as mature as they should be.

00:19:43.144 --> 00:19:46.798
And let's say, this kid is now an adult.

00:19:46.798 --> 00:20:07.015
Okay, realistically, I may have to be a little bit more involved, I may have to do more guidance, but I am going to implement an action plan where, every single day, I am going to hand them progressively more responsibility over their own life.

00:20:07.415 --> 00:20:09.521
So it's difficult to answer the question.

00:20:09.521 --> 00:20:14.803
Ideally, by the time they're 16 years of age, they ought to be pretty much running their own life.

00:20:14.803 --> 00:20:18.914
Now we know that the frontal cortex does not fully develop until later.

00:20:18.914 --> 00:20:22.781
We need to keep our hands on the steering wheel and be ready to go.

00:20:22.781 --> 00:20:25.132
No, you know that's okay.

00:20:25.132 --> 00:20:35.400
You know they need plenty of supervision, they need us to be aware, but as much as possible they ought to think that we aren't Okay.

00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:40.834
But let's say, let's say I have a 27 year old kid and they're pretty irresponsible.

00:20:40.834 --> 00:20:43.998
And I look back I think, yeah, I made some mistakes, I did too much.

00:20:43.998 --> 00:20:46.781
Hey, I'm going to put together a plan.

00:20:46.781 --> 00:20:57.494
What are the specific things that this young person can start doing and taking responsibility for and what are some of the mistakes that I hope they make right now.

00:20:57.976 --> 00:20:59.780
Because now the mistakes are much bigger.

00:21:00.509 --> 00:21:03.500
The consequences are bigger, they matter more than when they were seven.

00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:05.797
They matter more, but they still need to make them.

00:21:05.797 --> 00:21:10.858
Right Now, when we think about mistakes, we think, oh, what a horrible thing.

00:21:10.858 --> 00:21:17.730
High-functioning people tend to think of mistakes as oh no, it would be horrible if my kids made mistakes.

00:21:17.730 --> 00:21:21.477
No, every single great entrepreneur.

00:21:21.477 --> 00:21:26.371
I just watched a documentary on Honda, the guy who developed the car company man.

00:21:26.371 --> 00:21:28.298
That guy blew it like crazy.

00:21:28.298 --> 00:21:29.776
I mean, he made a lot of mistakes.

00:21:29.776 --> 00:21:32.250
All great people make a lot of mistakes.

00:21:32.250 --> 00:21:35.315
In fact, the greater people, the more.

00:21:35.315 --> 00:21:40.304
The people who really shape this world probably made a lot more mistakes than the rest of us.

00:21:40.304 --> 00:21:52.814
The beauty of a mistake is when you make it and then you have to own it and then you get on the other side of that mistake as a result of you owning it and working through it.

00:21:52.814 --> 00:21:54.196
How do you feel about yourself?

00:21:55.159 --> 00:21:55.680
Much better.

00:21:56.500 --> 00:22:09.221
I want all kids to go out in the world and think you know, if I'm going to live free, if I'm going to truly be free and I'm truly going to reach my potential, I'm going to make some mistakes.

00:22:09.221 --> 00:22:10.022
I'm going to have to.

00:22:10.022 --> 00:22:13.779
Of course, I want to be pretty smart about the ones I make right.

00:22:13.779 --> 00:22:25.365
But I know, though, because of history, that when I make mistakes, I can handle it, can grow from the hardship.

00:22:25.365 --> 00:22:40.440
A few things I can think of that are more important for all of our kids and our young adult kids, and to have that sense of security of knowing that, yeah, I'm going to mess up and I can handle it and I'm going to grow.

00:22:41.431 --> 00:22:46.212
I think that that's one of the most important things that I have taken away from Love Logic.

00:22:46.212 --> 00:22:53.435
What has been interesting to me is now that my kids are adults and for the most part they handle everything fine.

00:22:53.435 --> 00:23:05.915
But there are those moments and it is so much more painful at least from what I remember so much more painful now watching them as adults make those decisions and struggle.

00:23:05.915 --> 00:23:12.538
When they were kids, my husband and I were high-fiving and super excited that they'd screwed something up or failed at something.

00:23:12.538 --> 00:23:14.726
Now, not so much.

00:23:14.726 --> 00:23:16.330
Now it's anxiety causing.

00:23:16.330 --> 00:23:17.835
What is that about?

00:23:19.199 --> 00:23:20.342
I think that's absolutely right.

00:23:21.329 --> 00:23:23.252
Yeah, you're spot on with that.

00:23:23.252 --> 00:23:39.673
I could say, having adult kids myself and then one who's 17, who's getting really, really close, okay, yeah, you feel like, oh, my goodness, now the stakes are higher or whatever, and it can just be so hard.

00:23:39.673 --> 00:24:06.373
And it's so interesting because, from a psychological standpoint, when our kids become older teenagers and adults, psychologically speaking, the textbooks would say, okay, we should be backing away, okay, we should be allowing them to have autonomy, independence, really backing away and saying to ourselves that's what they need developmentally.

00:24:06.373 --> 00:24:11.403
But because of our own fear in our hearts, we tend to do the opposite.

00:24:11.403 --> 00:24:14.757
And then, talking about adult children sparks fly.

00:24:15.298 --> 00:24:21.422
I was going to ask you about that, because now they're saying 25% of adult kids are estranged from their parents.

00:24:22.451 --> 00:24:24.056
Yeah, it's an absolute tragedy.

00:24:24.056 --> 00:24:35.381
So I'm going to say some things that are really hard to do, and if you talk to my wife, she'll tell you he's probably not that good at doing that the stuff he talks about consistently.

00:24:35.381 --> 00:24:38.496
So, you know, let's just get that out too.

00:24:38.496 --> 00:24:43.413
I want us to be gentle with ourselves and I don't want anybody watching this thinking, oh, I made so many mistakes, I'm not capable.

00:24:43.413 --> 00:24:46.961
Be gentle with ourselves and I don't want anybody watching this thinking, oh, I made so many mistakes, I'm not capable.

00:24:46.961 --> 00:24:50.432
Oh, you're capable and you're going to make a lot of mistakes, and that's okay.

00:24:50.432 --> 00:24:51.555
You don't have to be perfect.

00:24:51.836 --> 00:24:55.972
The tough things that we all know most of us already know.

00:24:55.972 --> 00:25:00.474
I'll just go on down a list of things that are tough to really put into action.

00:25:00.474 --> 00:25:04.763
I think number one is the only person that I can control is myself.

00:25:04.763 --> 00:25:09.217
Duh, we know that, but it's so hard to remember it.

00:25:09.217 --> 00:25:13.750
The only person that I should control is myself.

00:25:13.750 --> 00:25:18.192
The world is not changed through opinion.

00:25:18.192 --> 00:25:21.712
It's changed through example, through opinion, it's changed through example.

00:25:21.712 --> 00:25:30.036
The beauty of all of this is that when we can work towards relationship, then our influence goes up.

00:25:31.076 --> 00:25:34.397
Oh, you mean building the relationship with the person, your influence.

00:25:34.397 --> 00:25:36.939
Okay, okay, lots of deposits.

00:25:37.439 --> 00:25:43.781
Okay, and so the whole question is who do we really want to follow?

00:25:43.781 --> 00:25:49.483
See, I'm taking a big chapter out of the leadership book right now.

00:25:49.483 --> 00:25:51.585
Hey, who do we really want to follow?

00:25:51.585 --> 00:25:53.925
Somebody that we love and we respect.

00:25:53.925 --> 00:26:03.471
It's not somebody who is constantly chasing us around telling us you should do this, don't do that, why did you do that, how come you did that?

00:26:03.471 --> 00:26:05.336
Or bailing us out of all of our problems.

00:26:05.336 --> 00:26:11.465
It's somebody that we look at and we say that person has a really healthy life and that person really cares about me.

00:26:11.465 --> 00:26:12.851
They see the best in me.

00:26:12.851 --> 00:26:22.314
And then when we run into somebody like that, we tend to internalize their values subconsciously.

00:26:22.314 --> 00:26:23.980
We do it automatically.

00:26:23.980 --> 00:26:27.038
I'd like all the listeners to just pause.

00:26:27.038 --> 00:26:31.721
Let's take a deep breath and think about who had the biggest influence on us.

00:26:31.721 --> 00:26:34.698
May have been a teacher, parent, coach, etc.

00:26:34.698 --> 00:26:40.134
But they were probably very loving but strong at the same time, and they had their act together.

00:26:40.173 --> 00:26:51.375
In terms of your view of it, they led an honorable life, and did they tell you to adopt their values, or did you just do it?

00:26:52.917 --> 00:27:19.170
Yeah, you're right, you're absolutely right we've got to set them free.

00:27:21.174 --> 00:27:30.425
If we can set them free and we can say I love you and if you want any ideas, if you'd like to share your heart with me, I'm more than happy to share some ideas with you.

00:27:30.425 --> 00:27:34.490
They may be good ones, they may not be good ones I'll let you be the judge of that.

00:27:34.490 --> 00:27:49.415
But I'm here for you, I care about you and see there's great risk in setting our kids free, our adult kids free Great risk, maybe?

00:27:49.415 --> 00:27:55.125
The question all of us have to entertain is where is the risk higher?

00:27:55.125 --> 00:28:14.121
Is the risk higher in setting them free, still being involved, but being a consultant, rather than a drill sergeant who tells them what to do, or a rescuer helicopter that always bails them out, but setting them free by being a consultant Is there greater risk there?

00:28:14.121 --> 00:28:22.141
Is there more risk when I try to direct the course of their life and end up having major power struggles with them?

00:28:22.141 --> 00:28:23.359
Where's the greater risk?

00:28:24.015 --> 00:28:25.099
Then they're only blaming you.

00:28:25.099 --> 00:28:29.683
They don't have to look inward, they don't have to figure anything out for themselves.

00:28:29.683 --> 00:28:34.683
So certainly the greater risk is in not setting them free.

00:28:35.486 --> 00:28:42.021
That's what I think, but you know I'm going to let the listeners decide about that, because I really want to be a good model.

00:28:42.021 --> 00:28:46.345
I love the logic we throw out what we believe.

00:28:46.345 --> 00:28:50.605
I have so much respect for people when they share what they truly believe.

00:28:51.655 --> 00:28:54.424
Everything you're saying makes so much sense.

00:28:54.424 --> 00:29:07.606
I think that the world has changed so much that there's so much pressure on parents of adult children to be overconnected with their adult kids.

00:29:07.606 --> 00:29:08.836
Does that make sense?

00:29:09.256 --> 00:29:15.885
Yeah, it makes so much sense from what I'm seeing with lots of parents and my own experiences.

00:29:16.086 --> 00:29:33.619
And, yeah, it does feel like the stakes are high and a lot of times I see a dynamic happen and I've had it in my own life where we do a lot of things let's say, we do a lot of things that help our kids be independent and then something terrible happens, terrible.

00:29:33.619 --> 00:30:16.226
Okay, they become independent and then we're like, oh, they don't need me anymore, and then it's really easy for us to throw up a mess somewhere here and there, so that there's some interaction going on and, the truth be told, it's like I want to go for quality relationship rather than constant connection over hassles and problems, right, and so, yeah, one of the risks, so to speak, is that when we raise really competent kids, we might not hear from them quite as much as maybe some of the parents who raise kids who can't fight themselves out of a wet paper bag, to be honest.

00:30:16.226 --> 00:30:18.481
But we don't want that.

00:30:18.481 --> 00:30:19.897
We want what's good for them.

00:30:19.897 --> 00:30:21.421
That's the gift of love.

00:30:21.421 --> 00:30:24.667
The gift of love is setting people free.

00:30:25.434 --> 00:30:31.919
You've said that so many times and that's what was in my head when I said that the gift of love is setting people free.

00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:38.509
Yeah, yeah, and setting people free and to live their life, even if it doesn't turn out that great.

00:30:39.316 --> 00:30:42.586
That's really hard for a parent to watch that happen.

00:30:43.536 --> 00:30:47.807
I just said that, and now I'm going to have to try to live with that in my own life.

00:30:48.214 --> 00:30:50.483
You know I'm going to have to apply that because I said it.

00:30:51.426 --> 00:30:56.586
But it's really important and I will mention my book.

00:30:56.586 --> 00:30:59.013
It's Raising Mentally Strong Kids.

00:30:59.013 --> 00:31:00.257
It'll be out in March.

00:31:00.257 --> 00:31:02.662
Co-authored it with Dr Daniel Amen.

00:31:02.662 --> 00:31:05.548
He's a neuroscientist, a brain health expert.

00:31:05.548 --> 00:31:08.839
Be available through Tyndale Publishers.

00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:24.397
But you know, my passion is really about mental strength, because when people are mentally strong, they're able to love other people well, because they're not constantly insecure or constantly trying to control other people when they don't need to.

00:31:24.397 --> 00:31:49.207
They're secure enough to be able to trust other people's competency and to put up boundaries, to say hey, I'm more than happy to spend time with you when I feel like I'm being respected, or I'm happy to have you live with us to get your feet back on the ground, as long as I feel like we're getting along really nicely and I have to do less housework.

00:31:49.207 --> 00:31:58.950
Because I want you to have self-respect, I want you to know that you don't need a rescue mission.

00:31:58.950 --> 00:32:07.269
This is just a short-term opportunity for you to get yourself back on the road, so to speak.

00:32:07.434 --> 00:32:11.707
I know one of the chapters in your book is Adult Children who Act Like Children.

00:32:11.707 --> 00:32:13.863
That's the title of the chapter, right?

00:32:13.863 --> 00:32:14.736
Okay?

00:32:14.736 --> 00:32:19.106
So without giving it all away, why, why is that the title?

00:32:20.055 --> 00:32:21.579
Well, because it happens all the time.

00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:23.125
I know, but we need examples.

00:32:24.736 --> 00:32:27.102
Well, you know, I need $17,000.

00:32:27.102 --> 00:32:31.412
Or they move home and they treat you.

00:32:31.412 --> 00:32:40.040
They act like a belligerent 13-year-old, they roll their eyes, they they're 25, they're 40 years old and they're demanding of you.

00:32:40.040 --> 00:32:52.577
They're laying around on the couch, there's beer cans on the table, they're playing video games, that kind of stuff, or they're criticizing every move you make or trying to make you feel guilty and those sorts of things.

00:32:52.577 --> 00:32:55.800
So those are a lot of the behaviors that we're talking about.

00:32:55.881 --> 00:33:00.525
So then immediately we put in to practice the five, beginning with empathy.

00:33:00.525 --> 00:33:19.181
Like, ok, so the kids laying on the couch playing video games and they've been trying, quote, unquote, trying to get a job, ok, so the empathy is it must be really hard to find work these days, even though the unemployment right now, I mean it must be really hard to find work these days, or what?

00:33:19.260 --> 00:33:20.781
Take us somewhere through that your parents.

00:33:20.781 --> 00:33:21.821
Okay, oh, I'm good with it, dad.

00:33:21.821 --> 00:33:23.943
Well, the truth of it is is I'm not.

00:33:41.256 --> 00:33:42.659
Oh, you can say that Okay.

00:33:42.719 --> 00:33:47.067
Because I'm never going to be good with seeing you not grow son.

00:33:49.617 --> 00:33:50.259
And you're taking.

00:33:50.259 --> 00:33:54.087
You're showing them that you're taking care of yourself with that statement.

00:33:54.714 --> 00:34:05.601
And take care of them because I never, ever and it's okay to say this to your adult kid I never want to feel like I am interfering with your ability to grow and be self-sufficient.

00:34:05.601 --> 00:34:07.064
Never want to feel that way.

00:34:07.064 --> 00:34:13.686
That's why we have this basic rule in the house that I'm never going to work harder in your life than you are.

00:34:14.396 --> 00:34:14.896
Wow.

00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:18.206
But the sad thing is, right now there's a couple problems.

00:34:18.206 --> 00:34:24.476
Number one I feel like I'm interfering with your ability to mature because I'm making it too easy for you to live here.

00:34:24.476 --> 00:34:27.543
And number two there's beer stains on the couch.

00:34:28.947 --> 00:34:31.842
That's a problem, and you're nice when you're saying this.

00:34:31.842 --> 00:34:32.907
You're soft-spoken.

00:34:32.907 --> 00:34:35.978
All of this comes to you completely naturally right now, right, well?

00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:36.559
right now.

00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:47.943
But if that happened in my own home, five minutes from now, it would be a lot harder for me, and that's why we practice this stuff ahead of time, and we might even get a life coach or a therapist to work with us on this.

00:34:47.943 --> 00:34:52.217
And how do we deliver it so that we can be proud of the way we handled it?

00:34:52.217 --> 00:34:57.760
Yeah, it's going to take a lot of practice, a lot of preparation, and that's okay.

00:34:57.760 --> 00:34:59.463
That's okay.

00:34:59.463 --> 00:35:11.773
And so, son, I'm more than happy to help you continue to live here, as long as I see that you're working harder on your life than I am.

00:35:12.576 --> 00:35:13.398
I am working hard.

00:35:13.398 --> 00:35:15.864
You just don't see what I'm doing when I'm not on the couch.

00:35:16.347 --> 00:35:16.668
And I'm not hard.

00:35:16.668 --> 00:35:17.329
You just don't see what.

00:35:17.349 --> 00:35:18.914
I'm doing when I'm not on the couch and I'm not done.

00:35:18.934 --> 00:35:20.759

Empathy and Boundaries: A New Approach to Parenting Adult Children

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