Season 3 Episode 74 Mother's Day Special: Tell 'Em What you Want!

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:03.686 --> 00:00:04.668
I love you so much, mom.

00:00:04.668 --> 00:00:05.791
Happy Mother's Day.

00:00:05.791 --> 00:00:19.913
You've been such an amazing support system for me over the last few years especially, and the only thing I would say is I hope I can also be a support system for you and help you view life a little bit more positively over the next year.

00:00:19.913 --> 00:00:23.309
I love you so much, thank you, thank you and happy Mother's Day.

00:00:23.309 --> 00:00:24.521
I love you so much.

00:00:24.521 --> 00:00:26.405
Thank you, thank you and happy.

00:00:26.425 --> 00:00:28.187
Mother's Day.

00:00:28.187 --> 00:00:30.030
Hello everyone.

00:00:30.030 --> 00:00:31.431
Welcome to Bite your Tongue.

00:00:31.431 --> 00:00:32.232
The podcast.

00:00:32.232 --> 00:00:33.195
I'm Denise.

00:00:33.195 --> 00:00:41.685
And I'm Kirsten, and we hope you will join us as we explore the ins and outs of building healthy relationships with our adult children.

00:00:41.685 --> 00:00:48.609
Together, we'll speak with experts, share heartfelt stories and get timely advice addressing topics that matter most to you.

00:00:49.121 --> 00:00:57.070
Get ready to dive deep and learn to build and nurture deep connections with our adult children and of course, when to bite our tongues.

00:00:57.070 --> 00:00:58.603
So let's get started.

00:01:03.313 --> 00:01:03.914
Hello everyone.

00:01:03.914 --> 00:01:10.531
Happy Mother's Day to the moms out there that are celebrating and welcome to another episode of Bite your Tongue, the podcast.

00:01:10.531 --> 00:01:14.650
I'm Denise and I'm here with my co-host, Kirsten Heckendorf.

00:01:14.650 --> 00:01:18.510
Before we get started, we're going to do a tiny bit of housekeeping.

00:01:18.510 --> 00:01:26.191
We want to let listeners know that our very last episode of Season 3 will be strictly your questions and expert answers.

00:01:26.191 --> 00:01:28.388
So please send us your questions.

00:01:28.388 --> 00:01:43.359
You can send them directly to us by email, by emailing biteyourtonguepodcast at gmailcom, or you can record your questions by going to our website at biteyourtonguepodcastcom and look for the small microphone icon in the corner.

00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:46.790
You just press and talk Easy peasy.

00:01:46.790 --> 00:01:48.362
We'd love to hear from you.

00:01:48.362 --> 00:01:50.528
Now on to today's episode.

00:01:51.049 --> 00:01:59.524
Today we're honoring Mother's Day and you may have noticed, in the beginning of the episode we had some messages from young and older adults about their mothers.

00:01:59.524 --> 00:02:05.245
We love these messages, so, as the episode goes along, we're going to share a few more.

00:02:05.245 --> 00:02:07.484
Stay tuned and listen to them.

00:02:07.484 --> 00:02:17.407
They'll come in and out throughout the episode, but today we're celebrating two moms who we believe have changed the landscape for understanding and parenting teens and young adults.

00:02:17.407 --> 00:02:31.231
We're talking about Mary Dale Harrington and Lisa Heffernan, co-founders of Grown and Flown, the amazingly popular website and social media stop for all parents with young adults and, of course, teens.

00:02:31.231 --> 00:02:40.170
They're also the author of a bestselling book called Grown and Flown how to Support your Teen, Stay Close as a Family and Raise Independent Adults.

00:02:40.170 --> 00:02:46.328
I personally follow them on social media and have noticed that they're moving a little bit more towards the young adult arena.

00:02:46.328 --> 00:02:48.486
I think you follow them too, Kirsten.

00:02:48.548 --> 00:02:48.707
I do.

00:02:48.707 --> 00:02:59.981
Someone had sent me years ago a newsletter or a blog or something and I signed up for whatever it was, but it was perfect for whatever was going on in my life with one of my kids who was leaving for college Preparing for this interview today.

00:02:59.981 --> 00:03:06.252
I also noticed that they were named in People Magazine's one of the 25 women who are changing the world.

00:03:06.252 --> 00:03:11.128
I know they're alongside Jane Goodall, american Ferrera, a bunch of others.

00:03:11.128 --> 00:03:12.211
They're in great company.

00:03:12.211 --> 00:03:15.610
It just makes it even a bigger honor to have them here with us today.

00:03:15.610 --> 00:03:19.509
Welcome, mary Dell and Lisa, and happy Mother's Day to you both.

00:03:19.509 --> 00:03:24.771
Can you tell us a little bit more about yourselves and how you got started on the Grown and Flown journey?

00:03:26.260 --> 00:03:27.084
This is Mary Dell.

00:03:27.084 --> 00:03:29.704
I'll go first, Since Lisa and I are both here together.

00:03:29.704 --> 00:03:38.246
I have a son and daughter, and they're both living and working in Metro New York City, not far from where they grew up in the suburban area north of the city.

00:03:38.246 --> 00:03:40.239
My professional background is in media.

00:03:40.239 --> 00:03:53.805
I worked for NBC and Lifetime in New York before stepping down to spend more time with them, but in a way that has some connective tissue to how Lisa and I started, Grown and Flown my background in the media and, of course, being a mom.

00:03:54.806 --> 00:04:04.872
And we started Grown and Flown because there really wasn't much on the internet about that period of teens, late teen years, early adulthood years, having college students.

00:04:04.872 --> 00:04:06.842
At the time we started Grown and Flown.

00:04:06.842 --> 00:04:11.181
Maridel and I had both kids in high school and our oldest sons had just gone to college.

00:04:11.181 --> 00:04:13.269
We had a foot in both of those worlds.

00:04:13.269 --> 00:04:14.775
We felt very much out of our depth.

00:04:14.775 --> 00:04:23.884
We commiserated every time we got together about this stage of parenting, but we just couldn't find much on the internet about it and so we decided to start ourselves.

00:04:24.745 --> 00:04:26.408
So I'm happy that you did.

00:04:27.870 --> 00:04:31.154
I happen to love the personal essays that people write.

00:04:31.154 --> 00:04:38.244
It's really amazing, all of you that are listening, if you've not gone on and read some of these personal essays.

00:04:38.244 --> 00:04:41.375
We have some amazing writers in the world, don't we?

00:04:41.375 --> 00:04:44.425
From young people to the very oldest.

00:04:44.425 --> 00:04:49.507
You have some teens write in and some young adults that have crafted articles that are pretty amazing.

00:04:49.507 --> 00:04:51.271
We've had Tracy Hargan on.

00:04:51.271 --> 00:04:52.161
I just love her.

00:04:52.161 --> 00:04:56.552
I don't even know how well you know the people that write, but they've been pretty amazing.

00:04:56.959 --> 00:04:58.966
I've had 900 writers.

00:04:58.966 --> 00:05:03.117
It started with Lisa doing most of the writing.

00:05:03.117 --> 00:05:08.620
She's a New York Times bestselling author, so it was a natural occurrence for her to take that side of things.

00:05:08.620 --> 00:05:22.310
But now we publish content daily and we're always looking for new voices, and I've loved the people who've written for us, both the experts and sometimes the parent who just has, you know, one really great story to tell.

00:05:22.310 --> 00:05:24.387
And we happen to know Tracy in real life.

00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:25.341
Oh, you do.

00:05:25.341 --> 00:05:26.343
Oh, that's so funny.

00:05:26.343 --> 00:05:28.189
So where do you two know each other?

00:05:28.189 --> 00:05:31.043
Tell us the connection with you two, and then we'll get into the interview.

00:05:31.826 --> 00:05:33.430
Third grade with our youngest kids.

00:05:33.430 --> 00:05:41.302
Like many adults, we met through our children and some of those are the most wonderful friendships, and in this case, both a friendship and a business partnership.

00:05:41.302 --> 00:05:44.788
We're lucky enough so our younger children were in the same third grade together.

00:05:45.930 --> 00:05:47.052
Isn't that something?

00:05:47.052 --> 00:05:49.115
Well, congratulations to both of you.

00:05:49.115 --> 00:05:57.769
So we're using this episode to celebrate Mother's Day because we think you're two terrific moms and you've also helped a lot of moms.

00:05:57.769 --> 00:05:59.706
Tell us what you think about Mother's Day.

00:05:59.706 --> 00:06:01.567
Do you celebrate Mother's Day in your families?

00:06:01.567 --> 00:06:09.910
Some people are like, okay, we're done with this, so where are you guys?

00:06:09.990 --> 00:06:11.235
in this whole idea of Mother's Day.

00:06:11.235 --> 00:06:13.425
Lisa, do you want to take that one?

00:06:13.485 --> 00:06:19.680
No, I'm going to let you jump in there First of all.

00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:30.862
I think Mother's Day is a great holiday and I encourage all of your listeners to celebrate it in whatever way works for their family, not only for their children, but also if they have their own mothers or mother-in-laws or important older generation of women in their lives.

00:06:30.862 --> 00:06:33.512
I think that's one thing that I love about it.

00:06:33.512 --> 00:06:35.620
I'm lucky enough to have my mother still living.

00:06:35.620 --> 00:06:39.269
She will be 97, may 57.

00:06:39.269 --> 00:06:43.704
And she is sharp as a tack and physically a little, maybe slightly, diminished.

00:06:43.704 --> 00:06:51.213
But it's wonderful to see the connections that our two children have, who are only grandchildren, and that I have with her.

00:06:51.213 --> 00:06:55.430
That's the piece that I love the most is the multi-generational component of Mother's Day.

00:06:56.300 --> 00:06:56.620
Go ahead.

00:06:56.620 --> 00:06:58.285
I want to go ahead.

00:06:58.285 --> 00:07:02.081
280,000 parents in it and there's a lot of conversation about Mother's Day.

00:07:02.081 --> 00:07:05.632
I think two things really rise to the surface in that conversation.

00:07:05.632 --> 00:07:09.911
First of all, the number of moms who feel disappointed about Mother's Day.

00:07:09.911 --> 00:07:21.326
So come the Monday after Mother's Day, we will have a flood of parents coming in, moms coming in saying that Mother's Day wasn't what they hoped to do, and every year other mothers remind them.

00:07:21.326 --> 00:07:25.103
Tell your kids what you want it to be, make it happen.

00:07:25.807 --> 00:07:31.172
Sitting and waiting for our kids to wake up and realize how important this is to us isn't a winning strategy.

00:07:31.172 --> 00:07:34.168
If you want that brunch, tell the kids we're having brunch.

00:07:34.168 --> 00:07:34.829
It's Mother's Day.

00:07:34.829 --> 00:07:37.665
You can give me this, give me your morning, and we're going to do that.

00:07:37.665 --> 00:07:41.201
So that's one thing that really rises to the surface about Mother's Day.

00:07:41.201 --> 00:07:48.060
And the second thing that really rises to the surface we just asked parents, I think in the last week, what they want for Mother's Day and it's overwhelming.

00:07:48.060 --> 00:07:48.862
People want.

00:07:48.862 --> 00:07:53.302
They want quiet, they want some time, they want a little break, they want to see their kids.

00:07:53.302 --> 00:07:57.833
The whole thing that gets pushed at us about flowers and gifts and cards.

00:07:57.833 --> 00:07:59.262
I got nothing against flowers.

00:07:59.262 --> 00:08:06.161
I have nothing against gifts I love gifts as much as the next person but what we really want is quiet time and family time.

00:08:06.161 --> 00:08:07.685
The evidence is overwhelming.

00:08:08.567 --> 00:08:09.348
I agree with you.

00:08:09.348 --> 00:08:15.891
I could care less if I ever get flowers or a box of chocolate, but a phone call from my kid, that's really all I want.

00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:16.420
So true.

00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:20.632
We see that in our group, as Lisa said, the Grown and Flown Parents Facebook group.

00:08:20.651 --> 00:08:29.379
for people who may be curious what Lisa was referring to, Facebook group for people who may be curious what Lisa was referring to.

00:08:29.379 --> 00:08:34.402
So I'm super grateful for my mom.

00:08:34.402 --> 00:08:36.065
She has taught me so much and she is such a special lady.

00:08:36.065 --> 00:08:38.190
She taught me the difference between being a lady and a woman, so I do love that.

00:08:38.190 --> 00:08:48.360
One thing that I would say is great advice for any mom is to always remember that your children will remember the things that you say.

00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:50.104
They are very impactful.

00:08:50.104 --> 00:09:04.008
So, especially when it comes to appearance as women, we sometimes are very difficult on ourselves about that and I know my mom tended to be a little bit difficult with me about my appearance or what I should do or shouldn't do.

00:09:04.008 --> 00:09:07.073
So those words were impactful and lasting.

00:09:07.073 --> 00:09:08.886
But she's a wonderful lady and I thank her.

00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:20.572
Mom, I know you're up there looking down at me saying look at you, you're 88 and a half years old and you're still wasting time.

00:09:20.572 --> 00:09:22.785
No, I'm not wasting time.

00:09:22.785 --> 00:09:31.774
I'm sending a little love note to you to remind the world what a terrific mother you were and are and you've meant so much to me.

00:09:31.774 --> 00:09:34.280
And I still remember your words.

00:09:34.280 --> 00:09:37.347
I still remember your good advice, your good thinking.

00:09:37.347 --> 00:09:38.169
I love you.

00:09:38.169 --> 00:09:39.633
Happy Mother's Day, mom.

00:09:43.061 --> 00:09:43.280
Okay.

00:09:43.280 --> 00:09:47.571
So I have noticed a little bit that you're moving a little bit more towards young adults.

00:09:47.571 --> 00:09:54.063
For a while, you guys were completely teens and college students, but I see more now in the young adult arena.

00:09:54.063 --> 00:10:03.365
There's a huge difference, don't you find, now that your kids are getting to be young adults, between teens and college and then young adults, You're stepping back even further.

00:10:03.659 --> 00:10:09.188
Some of the reason why you might be seeing more of it is that our audience has just come along with us on this journey.

00:10:09.188 --> 00:10:12.287
So many of them started when they started reading us.

00:10:12.287 --> 00:10:16.063
They had 13 year olds or 14 year olds, and now those children are much older than they are.

00:10:16.063 --> 00:10:24.509
One of the things that makes this so difficult is that we struggle to look back on our own experience as being young adults with our parents.

00:10:24.509 --> 00:10:39.542
So, because of the technology and just because of changing generational norms, we can't really look back at our experience of calling our parents, maybe once a week, maybe sending a letter, if that was in your family's behavior patterns.

00:10:39.542 --> 00:10:43.131
So we're very much lost and looking for our own ways to connect and to continue conversation with our young adults, and I think that's probably why people feel a little bit.

00:10:43.131 --> 00:10:51.788
So we're very much lost and looking for our own ways to connect and to continue conversation with our young adults, and I think that's probably why people feel a little bit disoriented and why they look to Grown and Flown for guidance.

00:10:52.640 --> 00:10:54.788
And there's very little written about it until this year.

00:10:54.788 --> 00:11:02.802
Well, I guess, jane, I say walking on eggshells, but very, very little in comparison to what you read now about teens and particularly.

00:11:02.802 --> 00:11:08.187
I wish I could just tell parents those early years you're reading, reading what's my kid doing at nine months?

00:11:08.187 --> 00:11:09.070
What's my kid you know?

00:11:09.070 --> 00:11:13.530
There's thousands and thousands of books we find overwhelmingly from our listeners.

00:11:13.530 --> 00:11:23.048
They say the hardest part is this young adult time when you are no longer in the picture and yet you have to learn to connect in a less obtrusive way.

00:11:23.048 --> 00:11:24.090
Does that make any sense?

00:11:24.090 --> 00:11:25.111
It does.

00:11:25.860 --> 00:11:29.451
And many of us may have mentored younger people in the workplace.

00:11:29.451 --> 00:11:39.270
I think there's a lot of analogy there with our young adults trying to slip into that role of being advisor, sounding board there when they need us.

00:11:39.270 --> 00:11:43.148
As you say, treading lightly, I feel like it's a little less eggshell.

00:11:43.148 --> 00:11:48.352
I feel like the eggshell years were very much the teen years where you just didn't know what reaction you were going to get.

00:11:48.352 --> 00:11:52.750
A lot less of that with our young adults, but they still very much need us.

00:11:52.750 --> 00:11:53.961
There's a lot of research into this.

00:11:53.961 --> 00:11:56.649
I know you guys have had a lot of researchers on with you.

00:11:56.649 --> 00:12:10.100
There's a lot of research in this about how much closer we are with our kids than our parents ever were with us at the same age and how much they still need that guidance, that support, that love, that sort of underpinning in their life that parents can provide.

00:12:10.761 --> 00:12:21.192
Sometimes parents of our generation, lisa, have feared that they were doing too much because they feared the branding of oh, I'm harming my children because I'm a helicopter.

00:12:21.192 --> 00:12:31.135
When we did the research into the book that we wrote that came out in 2019, it showed just the opposite that closeness really was nurturing our kids.

00:12:31.135 --> 00:12:32.200
It wasn't intrusive.

00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:36.250
It was something that was supportive to them as they grew up to be independent adults.

00:12:36.250 --> 00:12:39.164
But I think we do fear this Are we doing too much?

00:12:39.164 --> 00:12:40.086
Are we doing too little?

00:12:40.086 --> 00:12:47.513
It really is hard to find the balance all along, all along the ages that you're trying to raise these little kids to be independent.

00:12:47.513 --> 00:12:50.970
You just are always looking for that line and not cross over it.

00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:59.013
Is there anything that stands out to you guys as far as mistakes that parents make as their kids are transitioning into this?

00:12:59.052 --> 00:12:59.875
young adult phase.

00:12:59.875 --> 00:13:06.514
I think maybe not doing what Lisa said, not recognizing that your role really does change as your kids get older.

00:13:06.514 --> 00:13:16.034
You know that, transitioning into a mentorship role, a sounding board being there not with a quick suggestion but like just a good ear.

00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:26.491
I think the other thing is thinking that their world is our world, the number of times where I have said something to my kids and they've had to say, mom, it's not 1993.

00:13:26.491 --> 00:13:28.876
We're going to need to move on here About.

00:13:28.876 --> 00:13:31.903
The social norms have changed the way they behave with each other.

00:13:31.903 --> 00:13:33.768
The romantic norms has changed.

00:13:33.768 --> 00:13:37.785
When we're not cognizant of that, we're not as helpful to them as we can be.

00:13:37.785 --> 00:13:45.572
There's a lot of ways we think the world is and some of those are outdated and we need to be really careful that we're looking at the world they're in around careers as well.

00:13:45.572 --> 00:13:50.284
It's very easy for us to think stay at that job, Don't switch jobs, you don't want to be job hopping.

00:13:50.284 --> 00:13:54.841
Tons of evidence to show that people move jobs more often, they get better pay.

00:13:54.841 --> 00:14:02.360
You know, some of the old norms that we knew professionally or personally are out of date and we need to recognize that with our kids.

00:14:02.902 --> 00:14:04.722
I find that the very most difficult.

00:14:04.722 --> 00:14:09.126
Sometimes I don't even know what our young kids are doing today, what their jobs really entail.

00:14:09.126 --> 00:14:12.169
You have a section on your website now on young adults.

00:14:12.169 --> 00:14:18.335
We went through it and I'm just going to go quickly down some of the things that you talk about on that website.

00:14:18.335 --> 00:14:20.437
Kirsten touched on a few of the mistakes.

00:14:20.437 --> 00:14:24.163
You also have the feathering, the empty nest, I think.

00:14:24.163 --> 00:14:30.903
Several years ago I read an article in the New York Times that featured Mary Dell working as an architect to reformat her kitchen to accommodate a crowd.

00:14:30.903 --> 00:14:40.739
Most empty nesters are downsizing, whereas I think in the article you said I'm making it so everyone can come home, and I find that's a really interesting thing.

00:14:40.739 --> 00:14:47.331
Right now People are saying I'm going to move out of my big house and I'm in this conflicted situation because neither of my kids are here.

00:14:47.331 --> 00:14:48.754
They may come back.

00:14:48.754 --> 00:14:51.205
I want to have the space, I don't want the space.

00:14:51.205 --> 00:14:53.270
What was your thought process when you did that?

00:14:53.960 --> 00:15:02.586
Well, first of all, our house is almost 100 years old, so you know, we had done the kitchen 30 years ago and it really looked old.

00:15:02.586 --> 00:15:22.313
Anyway, we took out one wall and enlarged our island and did some other things, but it's a beautiful space and I have now my daughter, my son, my son's wife, my daughter's fiance, our young adult nephew and, when we're all there, in the old kitchen there were collision courses which meant we were the ones who ended up doing most of the food prep and most of the cleanup.

00:15:22.313 --> 00:15:25.169
Now there's space for everybody to participate.

00:15:25.169 --> 00:15:27.063
It's really been a great thing.

00:15:27.063 --> 00:15:36.682
It was well worth it, but it's also they live in Metro, new York City, where we are, so we do have an opportunity for them to see us much more frequently than we might otherwise.

00:15:37.243 --> 00:15:47.389
I was intrigued by your sense of what most empty nesters are doing, so we asked I put a little question in our Facebook group to see if people were really thinking of downsizing.

00:15:47.389 --> 00:15:48.912
We have almost, I think, lisa.

00:15:48.912 --> 00:15:49.253
What is it?

00:15:49.253 --> 00:15:55.991
280,000 members and 66 of the respondents said that they have not made one change.

00:15:55.991 --> 00:15:59.586
So, denise, you're in good company if you've not made one change.

00:15:59.586 --> 00:16:01.980
And then all the other answers were raised.

00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:12.326
The gamut from selling the house, moving to the beach, you know, expanding the house, moving to a smaller house, moving to where my kids are, but really most people haven't.

00:16:12.326 --> 00:16:14.394
And our who answered that?

00:16:14.394 --> 00:16:15.820
Hundreds of people who answered that question?

00:16:15.820 --> 00:16:16.922
Yeah, every time.

00:16:17.062 --> 00:16:19.548
I get concerned about it or think about it.

00:16:19.548 --> 00:16:22.614
I say my prayers or something and say first world problems.

00:16:22.614 --> 00:16:28.138
I get a little bit like slap myself in the face kind of thing, because we're fortunate we can make some of those decisions.

00:16:28.138 --> 00:16:30.325
Some people don't even have those choices.

00:16:30.325 --> 00:16:35.159
So failure to launch you make your house maybe too comfortable.

00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:37.947
Sometimes it sounds like your kids are out on their own and everything.

00:16:37.947 --> 00:16:43.827
But you have a lot about failure to launch on your website, in the Facebook groups.

00:16:43.827 --> 00:16:47.403
What advice do you give to parents and when they come back home?

00:16:47.403 --> 00:16:50.692
A lot came back home during COVID how long do you let them stay?

00:16:50.692 --> 00:16:55.672
Is multi-generational living maybe something that's coming to be healthy and accepted?

00:16:55.672 --> 00:16:56.982
What are your thoughts on that?

00:16:57.825 --> 00:17:01.966
One of the things I wish we could take away the word failure, because a couple of things.

00:17:01.966 --> 00:17:03.451
First of all, kids.

00:17:03.451 --> 00:17:04.476
The data shows them.

00:17:04.476 --> 00:17:05.539
I know you've gone over this.

00:17:05.539 --> 00:17:06.784
Kids are doing everything later.

00:17:06.784 --> 00:17:09.599
So getting the apartment is later, getting the marriage is later.

00:17:09.740 --> 00:17:18.348
Having children all the milestones of adulthood that we saw 30 years ago, 40 years ago, certainly 50 years ago, have all been pushed out later.

00:17:18.348 --> 00:17:26.949
So when a kid at 25 doesn't have the final job, doesn't have the partner, doesn't have the family or the apartment, they haven't failed at anything.

00:17:26.949 --> 00:17:28.511
That's just not the norm anymore.

00:17:28.511 --> 00:17:30.744
So I think we need to get rid of that construct.

00:17:30.744 --> 00:17:44.647
The other thing I think it's important to think about this whole notion that we would have the wherewithal to buy a place to live, to start a family, to move out, is very much a artifice of the late 20th century.

00:17:44.647 --> 00:17:52.362
Until that point, in the United States that is not how families constructed themselves, and the rest of the world still doesn't construct themselves that way.

00:17:52.362 --> 00:17:59.386
So until that point, young married people moved in with one of the parents, they moved in with the parents or they moved in with the in-laws.

00:17:59.386 --> 00:18:12.747
Nobody had the kind of money or the kind of jobs where they could expect that Our economy did so well and we had such prosperity for some periods during the 20th century, that became available to people at a younger age, but that is certainly not the norm.

00:18:12.787 --> 00:18:19.790
So I think if your kids are living with you and they're trying to find their footing with jobs and they don't have a partner yet, you should not look at this.

00:18:19.790 --> 00:18:22.084
The word failure should not be attached to this.

00:18:22.084 --> 00:18:24.949
It means that they're still looking for those things Now.

00:18:24.949 --> 00:18:34.531
If your kid, of course, is sitting playing video games all day and not doing anything to join the adult world, that's perhaps not the best thing.

00:18:34.531 --> 00:18:49.387
But if they're looking for a job, doing a part-time job, the way kids earn income looks like a lot of different things than it looked like when we were their age Consulting and gig work and different opportunities that they can jump in on that, quite frankly, weren't available to us.

00:18:49.387 --> 00:18:53.228
Their relationships are different and constructed differently, as we talked about earlier.

00:18:53.228 --> 00:18:57.584
We need not to take the construct of our world and bring it and impose it on their world.

00:18:57.584 --> 00:19:04.538
We very much don't look at it as failure and we think it's pretty much okay, and things that keep families close are good things.

00:19:05.131 --> 00:19:15.779
Speaking of close, we do have a number of listeners that have written in or called in and their kids live far away and they're feeling very disengaged and lonely.

00:19:15.779 --> 00:19:18.939
Do you have any advice for those parents?

00:19:19.990 --> 00:19:21.375
I think that what's helped me.

00:19:21.375 --> 00:19:29.304
We aren't always in the same place where our kids are, but we have a very lively family text thread and we have a very lively.

00:19:29.304 --> 00:19:34.999
My husband doesn't participate in this, he's not really on Instagram but Instagram sharing thread.

00:19:34.999 --> 00:19:40.271
Probably half of it has to do with Labradors, which are the dogs that our kids grew up with and we still have.

00:19:40.271 --> 00:19:43.991
We're the only ones with a dog and they miss the dog very much when we're not in town.

00:19:43.991 --> 00:19:52.074
But it's a way that I feel very close to our kids, without ever having an actual conversation with them or being in the same place.

00:19:52.074 --> 00:20:10.271
Not to diminish that feeling of being ignored or lonely, using technology to its full advantage is something that I think people should embrace and if you're not on social media or you're not participating in Instagram and that's where your kids are on TikTok, jump in.

00:20:10.271 --> 00:20:13.717
There's no harm in it and there's potential upside with closeness.

00:20:14.218 --> 00:20:14.980
Get with the program.

00:20:14.980 --> 00:20:26.935
I wanna go back to the failure to launch a minute, because when you said all of this sort of started changing when the economy, I wonder, was there more tolerance If kids moved in with their parents or their in-laws?

00:20:26.935 --> 00:20:29.728
We'd hear more of it because the angst is on social media.

00:20:29.728 --> 00:20:32.038
Sometimes it could be the smartest thing they could do.

00:20:32.038 --> 00:20:33.786
The housing market is crazy.

00:20:33.786 --> 00:20:35.932
You got four empty bedrooms in your house.

00:20:35.932 --> 00:20:37.276
What's the big deal?

00:20:37.276 --> 00:20:39.882
But why is there so much intolerance out there?

00:20:40.650 --> 00:20:44.393
I think that the reason is since the housing crisis of 2008,.

00:20:44.393 --> 00:20:50.616
There's been a steady progression of young people living with their parents more and more, so it's actually now incredibly common.

00:20:50.616 --> 00:20:58.883
The parents of these young people are the only generation for which that was uncommon, for our parents and their time in a generation that wasn't used to it.

00:20:58.883 --> 00:21:09.220
If this had happened to our parents or our grandparents, they wouldn't have had it.

00:21:09.220 --> 00:21:14.271
So I think it's because it happened quickly and it happened in very large numbers, and much of it is what you're saying.

00:21:14.271 --> 00:21:18.982
Housing costs, compared to what our kids can and do earn, are astronomical.

00:21:18.982 --> 00:21:31.244
You know, to look at your kid and somehow feel that they're a failure when the economy over the last eight, 12 years hasn't allowed them to do what you could do at the same age, has nothing to do with your child.

00:21:31.244 --> 00:21:32.546
Your child's doing great.

00:21:32.546 --> 00:21:34.369
They're doing everything they should be doing.

00:21:34.871 --> 00:21:38.280
And let's layer on the housing costs, on college debt.

00:21:38.280 --> 00:21:44.722
You know, really people are financially in not great shape to be able to buy their own first home.

00:21:44.722 --> 00:21:48.109
People are financially in not great shape to be able to buy their own first home.

00:21:48.109 --> 00:21:53.142
I think one benefit of COVID is that it did kind of break these norms of where people live and how they spend their time.

00:21:53.142 --> 00:22:06.352
And certainly I don't know about you two, but we had our young adults living with us off and on in various places and their friends and partners and nephew, and it was actually really kind of amazing that we had this opportunity.

00:22:06.352 --> 00:22:17.663
I think, in a way, I would hope that people would be more tolerant and more open minded about different, again multi-generational living options than they might have before COVID.

00:22:20.730 --> 00:22:21.891
Happy Mother's Day, mom.

00:22:21.891 --> 00:23:00.583
I just want to say that I love sharingital stuff and problems with home, because that's my dad and you're my therapist, but I don't want to be your therapist.

00:23:00.583 --> 00:23:02.553
Anyway, happy Mother's Day.

00:23:04.498 --> 00:23:11.300
One of the things that I was just thinking about is, you know, it brings up this idea of having to reestablish all these rules again.

00:23:11.300 --> 00:23:17.753
You've had this period of time where you've been empty nesters whatever you want to call it and you've got this quiet and this peace.

00:23:17.753 --> 00:23:24.134
And then they all come back and you really do have to reestablish what are those rules, what are the boundaries?

00:23:24.134 --> 00:23:25.679
We're all living together.

00:23:25.679 --> 00:23:27.804
How do we make this work collectively?

00:23:28.170 --> 00:23:31.317
Those rules might include your kids paying you something.

00:23:31.317 --> 00:23:33.262
This may not be a free option to them.

00:23:33.262 --> 00:23:35.174
It may just be a less expensive option to them.

00:23:35.174 --> 00:23:47.576
For families who are struggling with their own mortgages, having a young adult who's able to earn some money should probably be helping out in some way food costs, utilities, rent in some small way.

00:23:47.576 --> 00:23:55.979
So every family is going to have to find that place that works for them, both financially and in terms of the rules of people's lives and how they can continue to live together.

00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:01.361
Right, I love this and I hope we've opened the door to being more tolerant and accepting of this.

00:24:01.361 --> 00:24:08.462
You know, if your child's still living with you, people look at you and say, hmm, you know that it's not by choice, it's that they've failed.

00:24:08.462 --> 00:24:15.691
When you look around the world Italy, greece, japan, china everybody lives together as an intergenerational family.

00:24:15.691 --> 00:24:19.460
There's something to be said for multiple generations living together.

00:24:19.460 --> 00:24:21.932
It's a pretty rich experience, I think.

00:24:21.932 --> 00:24:24.777
All right, let's move to money.

00:24:24.777 --> 00:24:26.680
We were sort of talking about it a little bit.

00:24:26.819 --> 00:24:29.023
This is really a source of conflict.

00:24:29.023 --> 00:24:32.670
Some parents do have a lot of money and can give their kids a down payment for their house.

00:24:32.670 --> 00:24:34.276
Many cannot.

00:24:34.276 --> 00:24:35.674
The kids are stuck or whatever.

00:24:35.674 --> 00:24:36.397
Everyone's stuck.

00:24:36.397 --> 00:24:40.635
But a lot of situations where parents are paying for lawyers when the kids get in trouble.

00:24:40.635 --> 00:24:46.090
Down payments on houses first, and last month's rent cell phone.

00:24:46.090 --> 00:24:54.638
The Pew Research study said that most of the kids, even into their 30s, are still on the cell phone and streaming because they think the parents are lazy and don't want to change.

00:24:54.638 --> 00:25:01.792
I'll be honest both of my kids are on my cell phone plan and they're both doing well, but it's such a good plan I just don't even want to mess it up.

00:25:01.792 --> 00:25:03.355
So when do you stop?

00:25:03.355 --> 00:25:04.317
How do you stop?

00:25:04.317 --> 00:25:05.959
Are there phases in stopping?

00:25:05.959 --> 00:25:08.002
We're always trying to save them.

00:25:08.502 --> 00:25:14.142
Of course it's different for every family because every family is in different financial situations To what we were just talking about.

00:25:14.142 --> 00:25:17.002
You may need your kid to help you with rent, and they certainly should.

00:25:17.002 --> 00:25:21.817
I think the rule of thumb here, if there is one, is having them have some skin in the game.

00:25:21.817 --> 00:25:33.554
So, whatever it is, like you, my children are on my cell phone plan and they're on my cell phone plan because they can't get the plan that we have and I should probably and I'm going to admit this right here, I should probably have them paying some part of that.

00:25:33.554 --> 00:25:35.700
They should not be freeloading on my cell phone plan.

00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:50.182
So, whatever it is, if your kid let's use the example you just gave if your kid got a DUI and paying for a lawyer is beyond their means, you really don't want them to not have a good lawyer and whatever help they need in the situation they've got into.

00:25:50.182 --> 00:25:53.653
But they certainly should have some responsibility for what they did.

00:25:53.653 --> 00:25:56.801
They brought this on themselves and the cost of what they did.

00:25:56.801 --> 00:26:04.776
So while you may not want them to just pay for whatever they can afford, because it may put them in a very bad situation, but it doesn't mean they pay nothing.

00:26:04.776 --> 00:26:07.560
So the answer is never all or nothing is the point I'm making.

00:26:08.102 --> 00:26:13.020
Whatever it is that you're helping with them, try and make sure that they have some responsibility as well.

00:26:13.020 --> 00:26:13.872
This is how you know.

00:26:13.872 --> 00:26:16.180
The whole thing's a transition, everything's a transition.

00:26:16.180 --> 00:26:19.375
We're trying to get them more and more and more to have adult responsibility.

00:26:19.375 --> 00:26:23.201
So if you're helping them with their rent, you're not paying their whole rent.

00:26:23.201 --> 00:26:25.085
They need to pay something.

00:26:25.085 --> 00:26:28.098
If they can afford 20% of their rent, have them pay that.

00:26:28.098 --> 00:26:30.195
If you're helping them with 20%, that's even better.

00:26:30.195 --> 00:26:38.635
If they can pay 80%, try and find those places where they are taking adult responsibility, adult financial responsibility, even if they can't pay for everything.

00:26:39.911 --> 00:26:50.352
I think, a time to do this, and I don't know how many of your listeners still have kids in college, but that college price tag is massive.

00:26:50.352 --> 00:26:52.576
It will be the single biggest thing that most families pay for outside of their homes.

00:26:52.576 --> 00:27:02.094
If you have not already begun to have these conversations with how much we're all contributing, how much we can contribute, to college, this is absolutely the time to start doing it.

00:27:02.094 --> 00:27:04.945
So many parents neglect that piece.

00:27:04.945 --> 00:27:09.028
They send their kid to the best school that they got into because they don't want to hurt their feeling.

00:27:09.028 --> 00:27:24.612
You know they want them to have that dream school experience at the detriment of their own financial well-being Robbing their retirement accounts, for instance, to pay for their kid's college education, or going further into debt with a parent plus loan Backing that up even into high school.

00:27:24.833 --> 00:27:33.816
And beginning to have those frank conversations about what we, as your parents, can afford to help you with in life and what you really need to be able to work for.

00:27:33.816 --> 00:27:36.563
Take out your own government loan for.

00:27:36.563 --> 00:27:39.756
Think about a less expensive college.

00:27:39.756 --> 00:27:43.872
That's definitely the time to begin to have those frank conversations.

00:27:43.872 --> 00:27:51.152
And then what Lisa's talking about with God forbid a DUI or a down payment or things that may come later in life.

00:27:51.152 --> 00:27:59.380
It may not be as shocking to your kid to hear that you really need them to participate in this discussion on what to pay for.

00:28:00.710 --> 00:28:01.634
Yeah, that's really good.

00:28:01.971 --> 00:28:06.722
Do you think we should be sharing our financial situation with our kids?

00:28:07.589 --> 00:28:08.794
How much should they know about us?

00:28:08.794 --> 00:28:10.779
I guess financially, at what age?

00:28:11.710 --> 00:28:15.417
I know Lisa and I have both said this it really varies depending on the family.

00:28:15.417 --> 00:28:18.097
I think there are ways to sort of approach it.

00:28:18.097 --> 00:28:23.083
Certainly there is a baton pass when your kid turns 18.

00:28:23.083 --> 00:28:28.777
And there are certain documents that they need to sign and they need to take responsibility for.

00:28:28.777 --> 00:28:38.594
Maybe that is the time when you also need to sit with them, if you haven't before, and say you know, dad and I have a will, we have made provisions for for you all.

00:28:38.594 --> 00:28:42.722
In certain ways, we're still working, contributing to our retirement plan.

00:28:42.722 --> 00:28:44.451
Kind of give them big picture.

00:28:44.451 --> 00:28:46.373
That would be my suggestion.

00:28:46.593 --> 00:28:50.997
If you don't want to give your kids minute information about your financial situation.

00:28:50.997 --> 00:28:53.538
Some of that actually depends on how mature your kids are.

00:28:53.538 --> 00:28:56.961
Young adults mature at vastly different rates and understand money at different rates.

00:28:56.961 --> 00:29:02.406
The conversation about what we can and cannot afford may be where the conversation begins.

00:29:02.406 --> 00:29:06.492
You know this is outside of our family's budget.

00:29:06.492 --> 00:29:09.078
A vacation like that is not available to us and our family can't afford it.

00:29:09.078 --> 00:29:15.201
As Marydell said, towards college, we have these funds available and beyond that it's going to be loans or different colleges.

00:29:15.201 --> 00:29:23.160
So talking to them about what is and is not in our family's budget in a more granular way is maybe a first step to beginning that conversation.

00:29:24.203 --> 00:29:31.083
Yeah, this whole college thing is really scaring me when I open the paper and see a hundred thousand dollars a year now for college.

00:29:31.083 --> 00:29:34.103
That's a year's salary for many, many, many people.

00:29:34.123 --> 00:29:42.432
Well, it's also a salary that they're not going to attain for a number of years, depending on what they go into, and that's just with.

00:29:42.432 --> 00:29:49.017
An undergraduate degree may be required, depending on what they do, for a master's right or or beyond.

00:29:49.017 --> 00:29:51.163
It's a real problem, right?

00:29:51.910 --> 00:29:54.154
Okay, let's move on to love.

00:29:54.154 --> 00:30:00.556
And we've asked this question a few times in certain episodes, but I keep hearing it over and over again.

00:30:00.556 --> 00:30:06.594
I was just with someone recently that literally sent to me okay, I finally accepted, she's going to marry him.

00:30:06.594 --> 00:30:15.861
What do you do when you know in your heart of although no one ever really knows, but you think in your heart of hearts this is not good, Is it?

00:30:15.861 --> 00:30:16.782
None of your business?

00:30:17.490 --> 00:30:31.278
I suggest we all start by being a little humbled by how little we know about what works and what doesn't work, the number of times I have thought that some friend or somebody I know well was in the perfect relationship and the next thing I hear is they're getting a divorce.

00:30:31.278 --> 00:30:44.321
So there's two things we don't understand from the outside what other people's relationships work or not, and we also don't understand what other people need from those relationships, since we all need very, very different things from our long-term relationships, slash marriages.

00:30:44.321 --> 00:30:52.434
So the first thing is just to be humble about it and admit that the longer we live, the more we realize we don't know anything and the answer is you have to be quiet.

00:30:52.434 --> 00:30:53.679
There's no choice.

00:30:53.679 --> 00:31:01.419
You are going to have a relationship with that person that you may or may not have thought was a good idea, and those words will never go away.

00:31:01.419 --> 00:31:03.054
You want them not to come out of your mouth.

00:31:03.054 --> 00:31:03.336
Never go away.

00:31:03.336 --> 00:31:04.641
You want them not to come out of your mouth.

00:31:05.202 --> 00:31:06.166
So bite your tongue.

00:31:06.227 --> 00:31:06.750
Bite your tongue.

00:31:07.430 --> 00:31:11.401
And your podcast is what everybody should just have going through their mind.

00:31:11.401 --> 00:31:22.383
When they want to say something negative Because what do you expect your adult child to do Are they going to say, oh sure, mom, you know, I'd much rather satisfy you and not marry this person I'm in love with.

00:31:22.383 --> 00:31:32.218
That's a very quick way to be estranged from your child, as well as their partner, to be and heaven forbid, you're estranged from future grandchildren too.

00:31:32.218 --> 00:31:34.939
So there's a lot of riding on this relationship.

00:31:35.631 --> 00:31:37.396
I have one little caveat to that.

00:31:37.396 --> 00:31:38.519
What if they ask?

00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:41.137
What if they ask your opinion?

00:31:41.137 --> 00:31:43.397
What do you think about blah?

00:31:43.397 --> 00:31:48.173
What I mean Do you like her Right, Do you like, do you like her?

00:31:49.699 --> 00:31:50.221
How do you answer that?

00:31:50.221 --> 00:31:51.144
Change the conversation.

00:31:51.144 --> 00:31:52.268
So no, I don't know.

00:31:52.268 --> 00:31:53.191
I don't mean the subject.

00:31:53.191 --> 00:31:54.153
I don't mean the subject.

00:31:54.153 --> 00:32:04.762
Turn it around and say it's not about whether I like her or not, it's about what you want and need in your life and whether this person helps you and gives you those things.

00:32:04.762 --> 00:32:07.012
So talk to me, say to your kid, talk to me about that.

00:32:07.012 --> 00:32:14.138
What is it that you want from a relationship, and does he or she help give you that and does that satisfy you and make you happy?

00:32:14.138 --> 00:32:17.952
And then you turn to your kid and say I'm not living with this person.

00:32:17.952 --> 00:32:21.459
My goal in life is to hope that you're happy.

00:32:21.459 --> 00:32:26.596
So have the conversation, but our approval in a sense, as we're all saying, doesn't matter.

00:32:26.596 --> 00:32:27.270
It's not.

00:32:27.270 --> 00:32:28.375
That's not the conversation.

00:32:28.375 --> 00:32:36.424
So when they ask it, turn the conversation around and ask them if they're getting what they need in a relationship sort of go into sounding board mode.

00:32:37.046 --> 00:32:40.853
As hard as that is, it is not easy.

00:32:41.273 --> 00:33:02.625
Yeah, if they press and press and press you and you do see that your kid is happy in this relationship, even though you feel that there are perhaps thorns and roadblocks in them, you can honestly say I am happy this person makes happy and when I think about him or her and think about how he or she makes you happy, I very much feel good towards this person.

00:33:02.625 --> 00:33:03.885
You can say positive things.

00:33:03.885 --> 00:33:05.025

Season 3 Episode 74 Mother's Day Special: Tell 'Em What you Want!

Listen On

Recent Episodes