Season 3, Episode 79: Love After 50: Navigating Divorce, Widowhood and Stepchildren

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:04.149 --> 00:00:13.368
You need to say to your son or your daughter I am feeling lonely, I really miss having a companion and I would like to start dating.

00:00:13.368 --> 00:00:19.449
If the child says oh no, mom, what you say is I understand your feelings.

00:00:19.449 --> 00:00:21.327
This may be difficult for you.

00:00:21.327 --> 00:00:23.126
You're having your life, You're in college, You're at a job.

00:00:23.126 --> 00:00:25.699
You're having your life, you're in college, you're at a job.

00:00:25.699 --> 00:00:27.483
You're not living here anymore.

00:00:27.483 --> 00:00:32.774
I need this for me and I need you to try to accept it.

00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:35.301
Hello everyone.

00:00:35.301 --> 00:00:37.506
Welcome to Bite your Tongue, the podcast.

00:00:37.927 --> 00:00:46.372
I'm Denise and I'm Kirsten, and we hope you will join us as we explore the ins and outs of building healthy relationships with our adult children.

00:00:46.372 --> 00:00:47.180
Together.

00:00:47.220 --> 00:00:53.887
We'll speak with experts share heartfelt stories and get timely advice addressing topics that matter most to you.

00:00:54.399 --> 00:01:02.331
Get ready to dive deep and learn, to build and nurture deep connections with our adult children and, of course, when, to bite our tongues.

00:01:02.331 --> 00:01:03.865
So let's get started.

00:01:05.460 --> 00:01:09.272
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Bite your Tongue the podcast.

00:01:09.272 --> 00:01:14.072
First of all, I just want to thank everybody for listening to all of our episodes.

00:01:14.072 --> 00:01:20.947
It means the world to us and we want to thank our listeners who have signed up to become sustaining members through our Buy Me a Coffee program.

00:01:20.947 --> 00:01:30.402
That also means a lot to us and for those of you who have not signed up, it is so easy Just go to our website at biteyourtonguepodcastcom and look for the support tab.

00:01:30.682 --> 00:01:33.028
It is easy, and thanks for mentioning that, kirsten.

00:01:33.028 --> 00:01:35.784
I also just want listeners to know we're not making money.

00:01:35.784 --> 00:01:38.453
All this does is help us pay our expenses.

00:01:38.453 --> 00:01:48.487
And speaking of expenses, I wanted everyone to know that I'm not using our fancy microphone today because I'm traveling and so I'm using my little headphones to my Mac.

00:01:48.487 --> 00:01:53.647
I beg forgiveness in advance if it doesn't sound great and round of applause if it does.

00:01:53.647 --> 00:01:55.435
So we'll learn something today.

00:01:55.435 --> 00:01:57.983
But anyway, I'm very excited about today's topic.

00:01:57.983 --> 00:02:06.221
We're talking to a woman who's had a great deal of experience in merging families through divorce, through widowhood.

00:02:06.221 --> 00:02:09.871
She's a fabulous writer, and Kirsten will tell you more about this.

00:02:09.871 --> 00:02:17.549
But what I'm excited about, for some reason in the last few weeks we've gotten several questions about how to tell your adult children when you're getting a divorce.

00:02:17.549 --> 00:02:22.164
Another one asked about their stepchildren don't get along, what do you do?

00:02:22.164 --> 00:02:24.572
Or their stepchildren don't get along with their stepfather.

00:02:24.572 --> 00:02:31.150
So we're going to be talking a lot about that with this wonderful guest who Kirsten is going to introduce right now.

00:02:31.169 --> 00:02:31.491
That's great.

00:02:31.491 --> 00:02:32.596
Thank you so much, denise.

00:02:32.596 --> 00:02:35.264
Today we are happy to welcome Francine Russo.

00:02:35.264 --> 00:02:37.650
Francine is a widely recognized journalist.

00:02:37.650 --> 00:02:40.686
She covered the boomer beat for Time Magazine for over a decade.

00:02:40.686 --> 00:02:46.481
She has also written for the Wall Street Journal, the Atlantic and other major publications.

00:02:46.481 --> 00:02:52.574
She wrote an article recently in the Wall Street Journal called how to Maximize Joy with your Grandchildren and Minimize Conflict with your Kids.

00:02:52.574 --> 00:02:56.164
Your child isn't parenting the way you would, so what do you do?

00:02:56.164 --> 00:03:01.913
I will put a link to it in our episode notes and maybe she will agree to come back and talk to us about that someday.

00:03:01.913 --> 00:03:04.968
Today we are talking about her book Love After 50.

00:03:04.968 --> 00:03:14.610
The book not only tells her love story after 50, but highlights the difficulties of melding the family and give some advice to parents who divorce and have adult children.

00:03:14.610 --> 00:03:15.812
Welcome, francine.

00:03:15.812 --> 00:03:19.950
Is there anything we missed in the intro that you would like to share before we get started?

00:03:20.920 --> 00:03:26.673
Nothing you missed, but I would like to add that Love After 50 has a subtitle.

00:03:26.673 --> 00:03:29.387
How to Find it, enjoy it and Keep it?

00:03:29.387 --> 00:03:33.566
Because, believe it or not, love After 50 is so popular.

00:03:33.566 --> 00:03:37.782
There are other books with almost the same title oh my gosh.

00:03:37.963 --> 00:03:50.472
Okay, Well, we were going to mention that because on your website, the second line under the title, a comprehensive and intimate guide to finding, keeping and enjoying love after 50, you say it's the best kind of love there is.

00:03:50.472 --> 00:03:54.711
Why do you think that's so and why is that so important to know?

00:03:55.280 --> 00:04:01.146
I think that when we're young, we marry for many reasons.

00:04:01.146 --> 00:04:10.742
We marry to find someone to be a parent to our children, to make our fortune with, to have a certain kind of life with.

00:04:10.742 --> 00:04:28.622
We marry people usually that might be appropriate for our parents or for our social group, and all of these things come into play when we marry, which most people still do.

00:04:28.622 --> 00:04:40.492
But when you're over 50 and your children are grown up or mostly grown up, and you're looking for a partner, you don't have to think about any of those things.

00:04:40.492 --> 00:04:46.692
You don't have to think about whether your parents will like them.

00:04:46.692 --> 00:04:48.242
They may not be around anymore.

00:04:48.242 --> 00:04:55.704
You can consider whether your children like them and we will talk about that, but you don't have to give them a veto power.

00:04:55.865 --> 00:05:01.153
You already have whatever financial resources you have.

00:05:01.153 --> 00:05:05.088
You don't need somebody to make your fortune with.

00:05:05.088 --> 00:05:17.002
In fact, you probably, if you have resources, may want to protect them and, in fact, not look to somebody else to blend your resources with.

00:05:17.002 --> 00:05:28.052
What you want is a partner, somebody who loves you, who gets you, who makes you laugh, who's just there to be with you and enjoy life with you.

00:05:28.052 --> 00:05:38.987
If they don't have the right degree or they're not the right religion, according to whoever your parents or your younger self, it doesn't matter.

00:05:38.987 --> 00:05:51.475
That so brings you opportunities to meet people you would never have considered before, but who may be exactly what you want for this time of life.

00:05:51.855 --> 00:05:52.836
That's really interesting.

00:05:52.836 --> 00:05:54.497
I never really thought of it that way.

00:05:54.497 --> 00:06:02.932
Maybe we all should be getting divorced and finding that person that just appreciates us for us and doesn't know all our baggage.

00:06:02.932 --> 00:06:08.954
Why don't you tell us I hope I'm not prying, but you outline it all in the book, your journey.

00:06:08.954 --> 00:06:11.723
I'd love to know some of the mistakes you found.

00:06:11.723 --> 00:06:13.870
I think you lost one husband very young.

00:06:13.870 --> 00:06:15.437
Then you lost another husband.

00:06:15.437 --> 00:06:20.685
So tell us this journey, the mistakes you made, what you learned and what others might learn from.

00:06:20.685 --> 00:06:22.649
You might learn from you, I will.

00:06:23.129 --> 00:06:49.026
However, I want to say that my story, while it frames the book, is one of about 50 stories of couples I interviewed who were in second or third relationships, who were in late life relationships, and told their stories of the mistakes they made and the journeys they went on in order to find a wonderful late life relationship.

00:06:49.026 --> 00:07:05.048
So my story is just one of many, and I also interviewed many therapists and experts in relationships in order to give advice on how to find somebody, how to have a relationship when you're older, etc.

00:07:05.048 --> 00:07:16.000
As for my own story, it is true that I picked, for all the reasons one picks a first husband for and I don't regret that.

00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.584
I'm not saying I loved my first husband.

00:07:18.584 --> 00:07:21.189
We were married for 22 years.

00:07:21.189 --> 00:07:23.692
He was a high-earning attorney.

00:07:23.692 --> 00:07:35.192
We had two wonderful daughters who were still children when he died unexpectedly of a heart attack when he was 49 and I was 46.

00:07:35.192 --> 00:07:46.350
This was pretty devastating and I was very immature for 46 and needy and terrified to be on my own.

00:07:46.350 --> 00:07:59.564
I started looking for a relationship way too soon and all the looking for love in all the wrong places, as the song goes, for 10 years until I married my second husband.

00:07:59.564 --> 00:08:02.471
I dated, I had relationships.

00:08:02.471 --> 00:08:05.677
I made many mistakes, my relationships.

00:08:05.677 --> 00:08:15.944
I had eventually got better and better as I matured, learned what I needed, learned, in fact, how to find the right person, usually for me online.

00:08:16.906 --> 00:08:33.187
And when I married my second husband, who was also a widower, who was also a widower, we combined our families in a way that it's very hard to do when you're older.

00:08:33.187 --> 00:08:33.808
They were young adults.

00:08:33.808 --> 00:08:34.951
The youngest was 14 when we met.

00:08:34.951 --> 00:08:37.803
My youngest was just about to head off to college.

00:08:37.803 --> 00:08:46.200
When we got married, I became their stepmother and, because there were no other parents in the picture, we all lived together.

00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:52.517
To the extent, college-age children are living at home, and that became a great blessing.

00:08:52.517 --> 00:09:12.166
Because he died horribly five years later of late-stage lung cancer before we realized, before we realized, and I was the person who was there for his children and have been there for them ever since.

00:09:12.166 --> 00:09:21.206
And that's when we became a true blended family, because I was the only living parent to both my children and his children.

00:09:21.206 --> 00:09:24.892
We now have a wonderful blended family.

00:09:24.892 --> 00:09:29.264
We have Thanksgiving together my three stepchildren, my two daughters.

00:09:29.264 --> 00:09:35.672
Every year we have Thanksgiving at my stepdaughter's house outside of Chicago because she is the biggest house.

00:09:35.672 --> 00:09:51.976
People have different relationships within the family, but at that point, if there were conflicts or feelings mixed feelings about being in a blended family or having a new parent, those disappeared with the death of my husband.

00:09:51.976 --> 00:09:56.631
So then we all had an interest in helping each other through.

00:09:57.421 --> 00:10:00.410
And remind me how old his children were when he died.

00:10:01.642 --> 00:10:03.369
They were all in their early 20s.

00:10:03.369 --> 00:10:06.107
They went from 20 to 24, 25.

00:10:06.107 --> 00:10:08.581
And so they were too young.

00:10:08.581 --> 00:10:14.933
To you know, only one was fully launched, and they were just too young to have no parent.

00:10:15.220 --> 00:10:19.912
When you got married, and were only married for five years, did you merge your assets?

00:10:19.912 --> 00:10:26.052
Or, when he died, did his assets go to the children or was his will set up that they went to you and then the children?

00:10:26.052 --> 00:10:31.551
That seems like a very complicated thing these days, with adult kids and remarriages.

00:10:32.472 --> 00:10:34.847
Yes, and in fact I was very aware of that.

00:10:34.847 --> 00:10:38.039
In fact, I told you I was married to a successful attorney.

00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:44.683
I in fact had more money than my husband, chris, did, my second husband Okay, yes, okay, okay.

00:10:44.683 --> 00:10:55.179
And so I wanted to think about all the possibilities so that I wanted to protect the assets I had.

00:10:55.179 --> 00:11:00.197
He sold his house and he invested some of it in my apartment.

00:11:00.365 --> 00:11:03.676
We renovated the apartment to make room for all of our children.

00:11:03.676 --> 00:11:08.067
His daughter was in the dining room as a bedroom when she came home.

00:11:08.067 --> 00:11:10.394
We all ate Thanksgiving dinner in the foyer.

00:11:10.394 --> 00:11:12.192
Luckily, it was a giant apartment.

00:11:12.192 --> 00:11:27.278
But before we agreed to get married and I really researched this first, I said look, we need long-term care insurance because if you get sick and need care, my assets will be decimated.

00:11:27.278 --> 00:11:51.495
So we in fact bought long-term care insurance, we got attorneys and we created a nuptial agreement I don't know if it's pre or post or whatever it was that indicated, since he was putting a certain amount of money into the apartment and leaving me certain insurance if he died first, how much money his kids would get.

00:11:51.495 --> 00:11:53.970
So that was all written out.

00:11:54.731 --> 00:11:56.979
And you would advise that to anyone, right?

00:11:56.979 --> 00:12:04.740
And if the person they're looking at, or possibly marrying, won't agree to that, move on, yeah, or don't marry them.

00:12:05.322 --> 00:12:06.265
Don't marry them.

00:12:06.265 --> 00:12:13.057
Don't live together, because living together also can create legal problems.

00:12:13.057 --> 00:12:24.240
For example, if I had died first, would he still have the right to live in my apartment We'd have to have a document for that or would he have to move on?

00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:25.184
All of these things.

00:12:25.184 --> 00:12:30.981
You need to consider all the eventualities that can happen, because you each have a life.

00:12:30.981 --> 00:12:44.053
When you're older, you come with children, with money, with houses, with responsibilities, and so you need to consider what will happen if I die first, what will happen if he dies first?

00:12:44.053 --> 00:12:48.211
What will happen if one of us gets sick and needs long-term care?

00:12:48.471 --> 00:12:50.857
There was one other thing that I was very aware of.

00:12:50.857 --> 00:12:56.541
His youngest child was in college or entering college when we were married.

00:12:56.541 --> 00:13:16.019
We researched whether our being married would affect the amount of financial aid he was getting, and the answer was yes, and we decided, we thought about, we talked about it and we decided that I would make certain financial accommodations to make up for the fact that he was going to have to pay more for college.

00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:23.041
I didn't have to decide that, but that was a choice I decided to make because I did want us to be married.

00:13:23.041 --> 00:13:35.456
But I have to think about everything If you have children that age, stepmothers, stepfathers are responsible for financial aid just as if they were parents when you apply.

00:13:35.456 --> 00:13:53.988
So there's so many contingencies you have to look at and prepare for physical shape that you can.

00:13:54.008 --> 00:13:56.412
As I'm listening to you, you sound like you really had a lot of this together.

00:13:56.412 --> 00:14:03.652
How much of this did you learn through this experience and how much of it was just sort of intuitive to you, because I'm hearing a lot of a lot of intuitiveness?

00:14:04.914 --> 00:14:10.696
Well, I have to say I'm a great believer in therapy and I did have therapy after my husband died.

00:14:10.696 --> 00:14:16.999
That helped me a great deal as I went from relationship to relationship.

00:14:16.999 --> 00:14:22.942
Like I, my marriage was very wonderful, but I wanted it was very loving.

00:14:22.942 --> 00:14:25.211
But I wanted passion and romance.

00:14:25.211 --> 00:14:29.947
And I did find that with the very first guy early on.

00:14:29.947 --> 00:14:34.791
He was such a no good Nick and I ended up feeling such pain.

00:14:35.130 --> 00:14:49.961
When that broke up I thought, okay, I know, for me romance and passion is partly about somebody being unavailable in a deep, meaningful way, and so I became attuned to.

00:14:49.961 --> 00:14:53.562
Was somebody really emotionally available?

00:14:53.562 --> 00:14:56.971
And I'm not going to tell you, my choices improved.

00:14:56.971 --> 00:15:05.700
But sometimes the first choices were people who were, in fact, emotionally unavailable in a way that wasn't so easy to see.

00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:23.279
And then, after getting my heart broken once, that time I realized that this is something I had to look out for and I really needed to find somebody who was really all there and could handle intimacy, because I wanted intimacy.

00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:33.239
And bit by bit, as I got older, as I had therapy, as I tested out different relationships, I was ready.

00:15:33.239 --> 00:15:36.393
When I met Chris, we both wanted the same things.

00:15:36.393 --> 00:15:48.936
We had very similar experiences of having been widowed and raised children on our own, and we understood each other's experience and we were really ready to partner and to marry.

00:15:49.645 --> 00:15:57.393
Let's now jump into the book and not just your personal experience, because some of these things you have not dealt with, but you've interviewed a lot of people.

00:15:57.393 --> 00:16:01.653
How do you prepare your adult children, whether you're widowed or divorced?

00:16:01.653 --> 00:16:06.253
First, how do you prepare your adult children for divorce, because we had a listener question just recently.

00:16:06.253 --> 00:16:07.629
I'm getting divorced.

00:16:07.629 --> 00:16:09.174
What do I say to my adult children?

00:16:09.174 --> 00:16:12.889
Number two how do you prepare them for your dating?

00:16:12.889 --> 00:16:17.048
Some say you're not respecting dad or you're not respecting mom.

00:16:17.048 --> 00:16:18.091
You know blah, blah, blah.

00:16:18.091 --> 00:16:19.235
What's your steps for that?

00:16:19.845 --> 00:16:20.046
Right.

00:16:20.046 --> 00:16:34.414
Well, I can't really advise on preparing your children for divorce, because I was totally unprepared when my husband's died, so that's something you need to talk to a therapist or a divorce Divorce lawyers are very wise about this, some of them.

00:16:34.784 --> 00:16:35.246
I just thought.

00:16:35.246 --> 00:16:40.749
Possibly one of the people you interviewed who had been divorced talked about how they prepared their children, or anything.

00:16:40.769 --> 00:16:41.831
I think not so much.

00:16:41.831 --> 00:16:46.051
Most of the people I interviewed had grown children.

00:16:46.051 --> 00:16:47.615
I'm going to back up a minute.

00:16:47.615 --> 00:16:59.379
The reason so many people are finding love after 50 is that the baby boomer generation had incredibly high divorce rates, and that continues.

00:16:59.379 --> 00:17:09.488
And the reason that we did is that we suddenly realized that we probably when we were in our 50s there was a very good chance.

00:17:09.488 --> 00:17:24.039
We had another 30 years of healthy life ahead of us, and people who are in an unsatisfying relationship and had already raised their children, or mostly raised their children, thought you know what?

00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:28.636
I don't have to be in this unrewarding relationship anymore.

00:17:28.744 --> 00:17:30.494
There are plenty of people out there, or I can be alone, but I don't want toing relationship anymore.

00:17:30.494 --> 00:17:34.032
There are plenty of people out there, or I can be alone, but I don't want to do this anymore.

00:17:34.032 --> 00:17:37.786
I've raised my kids, we've made our fortune, we can.

00:17:37.786 --> 00:17:41.951
You know, whatever it is, people are breaking up in their fifties.

00:17:41.951 --> 00:17:43.555
This is continued.

00:17:43.555 --> 00:17:44.497
And so there's the.

00:17:45.087 --> 00:17:50.570
They call it the silver tsunami, grey divorce or grey divorce, yeah, but it's huge.

00:17:50.570 --> 00:17:52.528
It's a huge number of people.

00:17:52.528 --> 00:17:58.807
Don't quote me on statistics, but I think it may be as many as a third of all marriages after 50.

00:17:58.807 --> 00:18:00.269
It's a lot.

00:18:00.269 --> 00:18:13.118
So there are a lot of people out there who's many of whom have learned from their marriages and their divorces, and some who have not learned yet but hopefully will.

00:18:13.118 --> 00:18:16.029
So there are many potential partners out there.

00:18:16.029 --> 00:18:31.597
I have heard many stories about children and, depending on the situation whether they're divorced, whether they're feeling like some on their mother's side, or maybe on both their parents' side they see their parents' loneliness.

00:18:31.597 --> 00:18:37.480
I have had children introducing their parents to new partners.

00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:45.308
I have heard of children writing profiles and teaching their parents how to date online as many of those you hear.

00:18:45.368 --> 00:18:49.828
Francine though you also hear stories of my kid really doesn't want me to date.

00:18:49.828 --> 00:18:53.375
The whole idea of seeing my mom as a sexual being I just can't handle.

00:18:54.136 --> 00:19:05.865
I understand and it is true, and it really depends on the relationship between parent and child, but really, are they real children at this point?

00:19:05.905 --> 00:19:07.009
No right, Exactly.

00:19:07.789 --> 00:19:19.919
I would say you need to say to your son or your daughter I am feeling lonely, I really miss having a companion and I would like to start dating.

00:19:19.919 --> 00:19:27.718
If the child says oh no, mom you, what you say is, I understand your feelings.

00:19:27.718 --> 00:19:29.607
This may be difficult for you.

00:19:29.607 --> 00:19:35.712
You're having your life, You're in college, You're at a job, You're not living here anymore.

00:19:35.712 --> 00:19:41.053
I need this for me and I need you to try to accept it.

00:19:41.053 --> 00:19:50.498
I would say don't bring people home until you're fairly certain you don't want to bring a cavalcade of assorted characters to meet your children.

00:19:51.025 --> 00:19:52.171
So that's what I wanted to ask you.

00:19:52.171 --> 00:19:55.699
Did you bring the crazy guy at the beginning that gave you love and pet?

00:19:55.699 --> 00:19:57.005
No, okay, okay.

00:19:57.005 --> 00:19:59.192
So those were all yours behind the scenes.

00:19:59.993 --> 00:20:00.496
That's right.

00:20:00.496 --> 00:20:09.497
The boyfriend who was emotionally available was only after we'd been together we'd been seeing each other for over a year that I introduced him to my three daughters.

00:20:09.517 --> 00:20:12.198
Okay, okay, other for over a year that I introduced him to my three daughters.

00:20:12.198 --> 00:20:23.540
So I didn't put them through that unless I had some certitude not absolute certainty that this was a serious relationship.

00:20:23.540 --> 00:20:35.489
Eventually, when you decide that you do want to partner, either move in with somebody or decide that you do want to partner either move in with somebody or marry them, or whatever point it is.

00:20:35.489 --> 00:20:37.594
First of all, be sensitive to your children's feelings.

00:20:37.594 --> 00:20:53.417
Do not say, as some people I interviewed did look, you're 50, you're an adult, get over it, because no matter how old your children are, you are their parent forever and they are your child forever.

00:20:53.417 --> 00:21:05.452
The chances are that you're getting married to someone or having a partner who becomes primary in your life will change your relationship with them.

00:21:05.452 --> 00:21:16.054
Maybe that son or daughter was the main person in your life and now they will no longer be and that is a loss for them.

00:21:16.285 --> 00:21:19.134
It is a change, and change is hard.

00:21:19.134 --> 00:21:26.776
I would say sit down with your kids, listen to their feelings and say I do understand that change is hard.

00:21:26.776 --> 00:21:29.794
In some ways, our relationship will change.

00:21:29.794 --> 00:21:50.748
I want to assure you that I will spend this is very important I will spend some alone time with you so that we can still have our intimacy, and not every dinner or every lunch or every anything will be a threesome or a foursome or whatever you are.

00:21:50.748 --> 00:21:52.029
I need this for me.

00:21:52.029 --> 00:21:55.163
I am happy and I need you to understand.

00:21:55.163 --> 00:22:01.628
You don't have to like my partner, but I do need you to accept him and I need you to be respectful.

00:22:02.313 --> 00:22:03.439
That's the most important part.

00:22:03.439 --> 00:22:09.761
Even the title of your chapter, I think, is one of your biggest challenges or dealing with kids, or working around them.

00:22:09.761 --> 00:22:15.604
And then you say one of your biggest challenges as a couple is relating to your kids your own and each other's.

00:22:15.604 --> 00:22:23.570
So I think, what do you do when the two stepkids don't like each other, your child doesn't like them, or their child doesn't like you?

00:22:23.570 --> 00:22:27.431
You say be respectful, but that makes it really hard, doesn't it?

00:22:27.431 --> 00:22:30.984
When your kid just says he's no good mom, I don't know what you're thinking.

00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:37.266
Well, you just say, look, I'm who I am, I'm an adult, this is my choice.

00:22:37.266 --> 00:22:52.002
You don't have to like him, but I do need you to accept him and be respectful and over time and you don't have to do everything together you can craft your together time in ways that work for your particular family.

00:22:52.002 --> 00:22:58.944
So you don't have to have giant family events where all the stepkids are together if they don't like each other.

00:22:58.944 --> 00:22:59.968
You know, very often they have their own families.

00:22:59.968 --> 00:23:01.112
At this point they have their own lives.

00:23:01.112 --> 00:23:01.492
You don't have.

00:23:01.492 --> 00:23:02.696
Often they have their own families.

00:23:02.696 --> 00:23:04.343
At this point they have their own lives.

00:23:04.343 --> 00:23:05.666
You don't have to blend.

00:23:05.666 --> 00:23:13.467
I would say, keep your expectations of blending your family to a minimum, because it rarely happens.

00:23:13.467 --> 00:23:19.282
As it did with my family, it took a death, a horrific death, to bring us together.

00:23:19.282 --> 00:23:21.528
I don't know what would have happened.

00:23:21.528 --> 00:23:33.710
I mean we were getting along okay, but there were, you know, there were maybe some rivalries or conflicts or ambivalence, which is natural I want to get.

00:23:33.769 --> 00:23:35.155
We'll get to the relationship part.

00:23:35.155 --> 00:23:41.182
But I want to ask one more question, and maybe I'm just too money oriented in all this, because I worry about this a lot.

00:23:41.182 --> 00:23:42.365
You said your first husband.

00:23:42.365 --> 00:23:43.650
He was a corporate attorney.

00:23:43.650 --> 00:23:47.923
You had more going into the relationship than your husband, who died after five years.

00:23:47.923 --> 00:23:53.701
So even though this family is melded in inheritance, your kids are going to get a lot more.

00:23:54.642 --> 00:24:05.855
They are, but I talked to them after Chris died and I was obligated by my prenup to leave them 20% of my estate.

00:24:06.861 --> 00:24:07.905
Leave his children.

00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:13.048
Yes, because he had put into the house.

00:24:13.048 --> 00:24:15.413
But I asked my two daughters.

00:24:15.413 --> 00:24:17.604
I said I really want to leave their three of them.

00:24:17.604 --> 00:24:22.767
I'd like to leave them each 10%, which would mean you would each get 35%.

00:24:22.767 --> 00:24:23.710
Are you okay with that?

00:24:23.710 --> 00:24:33.265
And they both said yes, it's not an equal amount of money, but I think in terms of the other things that we give, it's quite equal.

00:24:33.967 --> 00:24:39.259
Yeah, and I think, speaking to everyone about it, seems like the most important thing that you're saying.

00:24:39.259 --> 00:24:45.150
You are so candid with your children and it sounds like your stepchildren, that everyone knows what's to come.

00:24:45.150 --> 00:24:47.673
So there's no like, oh my gosh.

00:24:47.673 --> 00:24:54.182
And then all this fighting when somebody dies, they get it, they've agreed to it, and you're moving on and enjoying your life.

00:24:54.182 --> 00:24:55.464
That's correct.

00:24:56.027 --> 00:24:58.512
Now, with all these kids, has anybody married?

00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:03.471
Oh yes, at this point I have eight grandchildren and one on the way.

00:25:03.471 --> 00:25:07.607
My stepdaughter and my two daughters have had children.

00:25:07.607 --> 00:25:13.388
My two step sons have not, although one of them is married, and my older daughter has two kids.

00:25:13.388 --> 00:25:22.853
My younger daughter has two and her third on the way, and my stepdaughter had two and her third child turned out to be twins.

00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:29.486
Surprise and are you considered the grandmother, are you their mother in these situations?

00:25:29.486 --> 00:25:31.166
There are situations like that.

00:25:31.166 --> 00:25:32.327
I don't want you here.

00:25:32.327 --> 00:25:33.529
You're really not my mother.

00:25:33.589 --> 00:25:39.175
You can be their aunt, my 10-year-old grandson did say so what are you in relation to me?

00:25:39.175 --> 00:25:40.436
And I just said I'm your grandma.

00:25:40.436 --> 00:25:43.115
He said, oh, okay, but he knows that his mom relation to me.

00:25:43.115 --> 00:25:43.545
And I just said I'm your grandma.

00:25:43.545 --> 00:25:51.500
He said, oh, okay, but he knows that his mom refers to me very affectionately as her stepmom, and I was there for the big moments of their life.

00:25:51.500 --> 00:25:57.641
I walked my stepdaughter down the aisle, I gave the big rehearsal dinner for my stepson.

00:25:57.641 --> 00:25:59.585
I fulfilled that role.

00:25:59.585 --> 00:26:05.134
I went to my younger stepson's graduation for the award ceremonies.

00:26:05.134 --> 00:26:07.709
Basically, I'm it, I'm the parent.

00:26:07.709 --> 00:26:12.323
You stepped to the plate, yes, but it wasn't hard.

00:26:12.323 --> 00:26:17.773
I was grieving and my heart so went out to them and they sustained me.

00:26:17.773 --> 00:26:23.432
I consider it a great consolation for Chris's death that these children became my children.

00:26:24.260 --> 00:26:29.366
I just want you to know and I'm sure you know this through all of your interviewing it's not always the case.

00:26:29.366 --> 00:26:32.588
You're showing to me an example of what should be done.

00:26:32.588 --> 00:26:37.030
Many situations I hear it's not done.

00:26:37.030 --> 00:26:42.770
I think you really stepped to the plate and I think if any message comes through here is step to the plate.

00:26:42.770 --> 00:26:47.577
I guess it depends if there are other people in their lives, like another mother.

00:26:47.577 --> 00:26:51.768
You have to figure out what your plate is and what your role is after that person dies.

00:26:53.111 --> 00:26:55.060
Actually, I don't think there should.

00:26:55.060 --> 00:26:58.026
I think everybody has to figure it out.

00:26:58.026 --> 00:27:00.710
I was in a very particular situation.

00:27:00.710 --> 00:27:06.645
I loved these kids before their father died and my heart so went out to them.

00:27:06.645 --> 00:27:09.372
You know, there just wasn't a choice for me.

00:27:09.372 --> 00:27:22.280
But if I were to have married somebody who had grown children and a living mother, or, you know, other step-parents, it might have been completely different and my choices might have been different.

00:27:22.280 --> 00:27:23.903
I don't legislate this.

00:27:23.903 --> 00:27:27.550
I think each person has to make a decision for themselves.

00:27:28.553 --> 00:27:37.441
One of the great things about this period of life is that you have many, many options, both in terms of how you are with your kids, for sure.

00:27:37.441 --> 00:27:50.045
But one of the things that affects this is do you marry, do you live together, or do you each stay in your own homes and see each other five times a week and talk 20 times a day?

00:27:50.045 --> 00:28:03.486
That affects how the relationships with the kids are, because one of the reasons people don't live together is they want to keep their social lives separate, and that includes their children.

00:28:03.486 --> 00:28:09.190
So they see their children, they see their friends and then, separately, they see their partner.

00:28:09.190 --> 00:28:11.165
The choices are many.

00:28:11.165 --> 00:28:13.788
You can craft it any way you want.

00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:21.388
How long after Chris died did you get the current partner you have now, and why have you decided not to marry?

00:28:22.340 --> 00:28:23.566
I waited several years.

00:28:23.566 --> 00:28:30.231
I was working on my first book, which is about how adult siblings deal with their parents aging.

00:28:30.231 --> 00:28:32.222
That was called they're your Parents Too.

00:28:32.222 --> 00:28:36.573
I didn't throw myself into dating, as I had done when I was young.

00:28:36.573 --> 00:28:46.752
I gave it several years and when I felt I was ready I went online and I maybe had five to 10 dates.

00:28:46.752 --> 00:28:51.987
I sold you know one guy for five dates and then I met Michael.

00:28:52.728 --> 00:28:54.711
I had made all my mistakes.

00:28:54.711 --> 00:28:56.961
I knew the kind of person I was looking for.

00:28:56.961 --> 00:28:59.567
I also had no interest in marrying.

00:28:59.567 --> 00:29:16.493
I had sold the big family apartment because it was hard to manage as one payer living in a smaller place that I felt I was going to live in until I died and I would never wake up and have to worry about whether I could afford or had to move again.

00:29:16.493 --> 00:29:28.587
I didn't want the complication, the financial complication, and my children also had my powers of attorney for health and all of that, and I wanted them to remain that way.

00:29:28.587 --> 00:29:33.372
So I didn't want a legal relationship with anybody else.

00:29:33.372 --> 00:29:41.770
I have a wonderful relationship but we're not domestic partners and we're not married and I don't have to worry about his long-term care.

00:29:41.770 --> 00:29:45.450
He's financially separate and that's the way I want it.

00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:52.605
We're getting kind of close to time and I want to make sure that there isn't anything relationship you've ever had when you're older.

00:30:05.881 --> 00:30:17.912
And that having choices about what kind of relationship you have whether you marry or live together or don't live together just makes it so wonderful to have what you want.

00:30:17.912 --> 00:30:28.631
That also affects how easy or not easy things are with your children and with your friends and you can craft the kind of life you want and still have a partner.

00:30:29.152 --> 00:30:44.521
Okay, and one more thing I have to ask before we close is about feeling lovable, because that hit me a lot, because I think as you grow older in any relationship, your body changes, your mind changes, your libido changes, all of these different things.

00:30:44.521 --> 00:30:49.232
I love the part where you talked about your sexuality and feeling lovable.

00:30:49.232 --> 00:31:00.393
What advice do you have I guess this is particular well, men and women to be able to expose themselves again at this later part of life in a loving, passionate way.

00:31:01.661 --> 00:31:14.560
One of the other wonderful things about loving somebody when you're older is that your bodies are not the same and you're not driven as much by your sexual urges.

00:31:14.560 --> 00:31:23.488
You want companionship, you want somebody who gets you, somebody who makes you laugh, somebody you can count on and, of course, you want to feel attraction.

00:31:23.488 --> 00:31:38.806
But it's not like when you were in 20s or your 30s, because you each have physical vulnerabilities, whether it's a man not being able to get erections or whether it's a woman whose vaginal dryness prevents her from enjoying intercourse.

00:31:38.806 --> 00:31:43.972
You have to tell each other early on I can do this, I can't do that.

00:31:43.972 --> 00:32:01.313
This feels good and, because you have to be vulnerable, you're intimate and you share and you can tell each other what you want, what you need, what feels good in ways that you probably never did before.

00:32:01.313 --> 00:32:03.607
Believe me, there's a lot of pleasure in that.

00:32:05.060 --> 00:32:06.744
I bet that's really interesting.

00:32:06.744 --> 00:32:18.789
All right, I think we've gotten most of this from Francine and, as I mentioned earlier, she's written about grandkids and your children, and I wonder if we can leave with two tips on how to handle it.

00:32:18.789 --> 00:32:27.472
When your child, your stepchild, you, have questions about the way they're raising your grandchildren, do you bite your tongue entirely?

00:32:27.472 --> 00:32:30.021
What are a couple tips you could offer in closing?

00:32:31.066 --> 00:32:36.221
Well, I wrote about this for the Wall Street Journal and I interviewed a lot of people about this.

00:32:36.221 --> 00:32:45.800
The most important thing that a lot of grandparents have trouble with is to be aware and to remind yourself that you are not in charge.

00:32:45.800 --> 00:32:48.906
Your children are now the parents.

00:32:48.906 --> 00:32:50.830
They get to decide.

00:32:50.830 --> 00:33:10.828
You may not agree with them, you may disapprove of many things, but you don't get to decide, and you will get along much better with them if you acknowledge you can say what your feelings are and saying I don't really think this is a good idea, and your kids will say, well, that's the way we, we do it.

00:33:10.828 --> 00:33:14.721
And then you shut up as hard as it is You're.

00:33:14.721 --> 00:33:17.810
You made mistakes when you were a parent, a young parent.

00:33:17.810 --> 00:33:22.144
They will make their own mistakes and you have to let them do that.

00:33:22.806 --> 00:33:29.915
The other thing is to be really helpful, not taking, but giving to the extent you can.

00:33:29.915 --> 00:33:32.087
So ask them what do they need?

00:33:32.087 --> 00:33:35.029
Be aware they have incredibly busy lives.

00:33:35.029 --> 00:33:38.923
Their kids are incredibly scheduled and you need to fit in with their lives.

00:33:38.923 --> 00:33:42.605
So ask them in what ways can you be helpful and you need to fit in with their lives.

00:33:42.605 --> 00:33:46.150
So ask them in what ways can you be helpful.

00:33:46.150 --> 00:33:48.352
When is it good for you to visit?

00:33:48.352 --> 00:33:50.814
What holidays can you spend with them?

00:33:50.814 --> 00:33:53.916
What holidays do you have to take a back seat for?

00:33:53.916 --> 00:34:03.728
What kinds of rules do they have about whether the kids get gifts or sweets or stay up until a certain time?

00:34:03.728 --> 00:34:05.192
Follow their rules.

00:34:05.192 --> 00:34:06.845
Follow their rules.

00:34:06.944 --> 00:34:07.788
That's a big one.

00:34:07.788 --> 00:34:14.407
Bite your tongue and follow their rules and I think it saves the relationship.

00:34:14.407 --> 00:34:17.503
If you want to ruin the relationship, do everything oppositely.

00:34:18.367 --> 00:34:18.588
Right.

00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:21.606
Okay, francine, thank you so much for joining us.

00:34:21.606 --> 00:34:23.030
Good luck with your new grandbaby.

00:34:23.030 --> 00:34:24.465
Do you know whether it's a girl or a boy?

00:34:24.465 --> 00:34:26.364
They want to be surprised.

00:34:26.364 --> 00:34:27.369
They want to be surprised.

00:34:27.369 --> 00:34:30.349
Well, I might have to ask you to let us know when the time comes.

00:34:30.349 --> 00:34:32.166
So, thank you so much.

00:34:32.166 --> 00:34:35.282
I hope it's a healthy, fast, productive birth.

00:34:35.282 --> 00:34:36.001
How about that?

00:34:36.001 --> 00:34:37.864
Okay, thanks so much.

00:34:37.864 --> 00:34:38.943
Thank you so much.

00:34:38.943 --> 00:34:40.025
Thank you so much, thank you.

00:34:40.025 --> 00:34:42.686
So that's a wrap.

00:34:42.686 --> 00:34:44.668
I really enjoyed her.

00:34:44.668 --> 00:35:04.376
What a smart cookie, and I just want everyone to know although we talked to her about this finding love after 50, if you Google her, francine Russo and we'll put a link in our episode notes she's written about everything from taking care of your aging parents, how to deal with your grandchildren so many things in this genre.

00:35:04.376 --> 00:35:06.143
I hope that everyone will take some time to look her up.

00:35:06.143 --> 00:35:12.264
I appreciated her openness and her vulnerability, and so much that she had to say was so real.

00:35:13.146 --> 00:35:14.148
I completely agree.

00:35:14.148 --> 00:35:23.331
Without that excessive emotion she was really able to get to the nuts and bolts of her experience, which is she lost two people.

00:35:23.331 --> 00:35:24.534
It wasn't necessarily.

00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:25.081
Two people.

00:35:25.101 --> 00:35:30.860
Yeah, it wasn't that she chose those things, that's just how her journey has played out.

00:35:30.860 --> 00:35:36.132
Obviously, she had all the skill sets to be able to navigate that very difficult situation.

00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:43.027
But and the confidence and we didn't talk a lot about parts of the book that some people that are in a situation where they're looking for love would like.

00:35:43.027 --> 00:35:50.474
She really talks about how to find that love ability and how to have the confidence in yourself again to go out there and put yourself out there.

00:35:50.474 --> 00:35:53.128
So there's something real about that.

00:35:53.128 --> 00:36:00.572
There's a few friends I'm going to really make sure listen to this episode Even friends that don't have adult children that are looking for love in this part of their life.

00:36:01.461 --> 00:36:07.405
Thank you today for listening and also thank you to Connie Gordon-Fisher, our audio engineer.

00:36:07.405 --> 00:36:19.269
I want to remind everybody once again to support our work by going to our website at BiteYourTonguePodcastcom and hit support us For as little as $5, you can help keep us going.

00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:25.608
And also I want to tell you, remember on our website there's that little microphone Send us messages anytime you want.

00:36:25.608 --> 00:36:30.492
Send us messages, but remember sometimes you might have to bite your tongue.

Season 3, Episode 79: Love After 50: Navigating Divorce, Widowhood and Stepchildren

Listen On

Recent Episodes